A. Wedeking Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Live in Stamford TX. Found this anvil only later found it had a broke face, I'm a welder have burned 100's of lb of stoody 1105 rods hard surfacing tool steel would appreciate any and all comments and suggestions thank you. Trenton Anvil Images - Imgur Album Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I would read up on the Robb Gunter method of anvil repair and follow it exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Wedeking Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 thank you for your help do you think that the anvil is cast steel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 NO it wouldn't broken that way unless it had a tool steel face forge welded to the body! Anvils in America by Richard Postman says it was made in 1900 if that serial number is complete. They did use a cast steel base but the upper body was forged wrought iron or steel depending on the price. The face was forged welded onto the upper body and the upper body was forge welded onto the base at that period IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Wedeking Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Ok thank you! I really did not know , would you have any thoughts about when it was made ? I guess I should have asked the big question is it worth repairing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 It's very usable as it stands; rather like a car with a dinged fender. You can repair it if you want to or drive it like it is! It's an excellent brand of anvil; just PLEASE do nothing to reduce the thickness of the face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Wedeking Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 I not putting nothing except hot steel on the face , if I repair it I will only work on the repair. With a cup stone to blend up to the old face. I always heat metal when welding with 7018 ,and hard surface type rods. I try to read up on this Mr. Gurther. thank you very much Mr Powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Robb Gunter used to be the blacksmith at Sandia National Labs and is a renowned source of information on forging many oddball alloys---he's the one that got me forging Titanium after a Quad-State Demo he did back when it was still at Emmert's place. Also "super quench" was developed by him to replace the hideously dangerous strong Lye quench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 That Trenton was not made in 1901. The last digit of the serial number is obscured by evidence of the logo stamp style. The serial number is 18179x, that would be 1922 per A.I.A. A 1901 logo style stamp is very different than a 1922 style stamp. Thank you for the pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Wedeking Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 On the bottom of the anvil it looks like a star, a four, and a 1 or am I seeing just pitting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Wedeking Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 thank you, to begain any repairs the question is wrought iron, cast, or steel???? I did some reading on Guenther. , and to fix it I would need to know what I would be working on. When I touched the side of the broke face it shot lots of sparks, when I did the same to the base it shot a lot of sparks also, more so than cast iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS! THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS! THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS! THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS!. There may be wrought iron, cast steel or forged steel. At that date you are into the steel years I believe and I don't think there is any difference in how to weld cast steel or forged steel. Thanks BF, I was wondering which is why I used "if that serial number is complete" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Okay, but can you make tongs from rebar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 First you get your plaster of paris and sand..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Wrought iron is neither cast iron nor steel, its stuff of it's own. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 8/2/2017 at 0:09 PM, ThomasPowers said: THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS! THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS! THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS! THERE IS NO CAST IRON IN TRENTON ANVILS!. There may be wrought iron, cast steel or forged steel. At that date you are into the steel years I believe and I don't think there is any difference in how to weld cast steel or forged steel. Thanks BF, I was wondering which is why I used "if that serial number is complete" Sheesh....what's with "shouting" in bold text over and over? The guy asked a pretty simple question...no need to yell at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 And the answer had previously been given! Or didn't you read the thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 I read the thread, but maybe you didn't read the OP's last comment where he essentially ruled out cast iron based upon the sparks? The answer you gave was "it might be this with this, or this with that" so it may not have been perfectly clear to him. Even if the answer was there crystal clear, and the OP simply missed it, is that a reason to yell at him? Would you address someone like that in person....yell at them the same sentence four times in a row if they didn't understand your first explanation? I sure hope not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Wrought iron, cast or steel is indeterminate and most folks do not use the term cast steel but do use the term cast iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Wedeking Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 I'm 69 years old. I was under the impression that, I Forge Iron, would be where I could receive some helpful information regarding this content. I wasn't expecting to be treated disrespectfully by such an active member of the community. Thank you all for the assistance given regarding the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 My wife is 71; you can find a button to add me to your ignore list and never have to see my posts again on this site. Feel free; but at least I'm sure that nobody reading this thread should have any doubt that trentons NEVER had cast iron in them! Remember while you may be asking the question the World is reading the answers and making decisions based on them. If your question had specified cast or forged steel then this would never had been an issue. The devil is in the details! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Some times one gets tired of repeatedly chewing the same meal. TP and others have coverd this subject multiple times. Many of the long time and consistent posters are either professional smiths or extreamly knoledgeable and skilled hobiest. That said, they work for significant hourly rates and the time they invested in answering a worthy question in not inconsequential. Please be as equally respectfull of their time and knoledge buy reading their answer and doing your home work. We have seen many a worthy anvil destroyed by repaires performed by otherwise competent machinists and welders because they beliver they knew what they were doing. As you know cast iron, low carbon steel, high carbon steel and wraught Iron (you have welded wraught before?) take different techniques. Further pre and post heat of the anvil to weld the tool steel plate will dang neir draw all the temper and will require heat treating the plate. Anvil repair is specialized welding, somthing akin to titanium presure vessels. You may know how to weld titanium and you may have welded presure vessels but component the two will present you some new chalages. Lastly in my rant, we are also conscious of the fact that this document will be avalable to others in the future, so presenting 1/2 the information, allowing a misunderstanding or improper terminology is a disservice to future smiths. All in all, an hour of TP's time on his 33 wedding anaversory shows great respect to your potential as a member of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew D Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Wedeking, The Gunther article is great. A couple years ago, I purchased a Trenton with very bad edges. Although it is not as bad as yours with the big chip. I wanted the edges repaired because I was interested in using techniques of forging half/on half/off as demonstrated by Brian Brazeal. I am not a professional welder by any means, but a competent welder. I followed the directions in the Gunther article and was very pleased with the repair. The edges are good again and the face still has all the rebound that it had before. I have struck the edge from time to time and it has held up just find. It could be a little softer than the rest of the face, but I am okay with that. The anvil works beautifully and I couldn't be more happy. I look forward to seeing your after repair photos. By the way, I did not see anything in the Gunther article that discussed having to harden the anvil after it was repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Wedeking Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 What I understand is to post heatback to 400 degrees. Verify with tempo, stick pack the anvil Ln crushed mica and allow it to slow cool for a minimum of 8 hours. Did you do this? Its supposed to minimize stress cracking. I haven't started on mine, but as soon as I get it repaired, I show some pictures, it gone be a lot of welding. Good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 How hot dose welding rod get when it melts? 400f is fine for the plate, but you have to be very careful that heat dosnt build up, and still the plate will get hot close to the weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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