Frog8fly Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I bought a bran new propane torch for 30 bucks. It will be for my gas forge, once I can figure out why it won't stay lit! The torch is hooked up to a PSI regulator, 0-20 PSI. Here is the regulator : https://www.amazon.com/GASPRO-Pressure-Propane-Adjustable-Regulator/dp/B01M4SA4PG/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1487707210&sr=8-16&keywords=psi+regulator I turn the psi all the way up and light the torch, and it instantly dies. After fooling around, I figured out that covering the air holes on the burner keeps the flame alive, but burns very slowly, obviously.. The moment I move my hand off of the air holes, the flame goes out. What is going on here?! Pictures of the torch : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodnMetalGuy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 20 psi is pretty high pressure. May be blowing itself out. Try it with a lower pressure and turn it up gradually to see how it handles it. Do you have specifications from the torch that recommends what pressure it should run at? -- Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frog8fly Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 @WoodnMetalGuy Unfortunately, I do not have the specifications. I will try lowering the pressure and report back asap. @WoodnMetalGuy I lowered the PSI. It was still having troubles. It actually lit after lowering it, but the flame was right after the air hole! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 I was going to suggest lowering the pressure as well, but there is another factor to take into account here. If you are planning on using it in a forge, then what's really important is its behavior when inserted into the forge as you intend to use it. Granted, most torches of that style do function well outside a forge body, but what really matters to you is how it performs where you want to use it. Forges tend to create a little back pressure, so in some cases a burner will stay lit in a forge that would blow itself out in open air. Yet another possibility is if that torch was designed to be connected directly to a propane tank with no regulator, then it may actually require higher pressure to function correctly. I hesitate to suggest trying it without the regulator unless you could put a needle valve and a ball valve for quick shut off between the tank and the burner, but that would give you a better idea. That regulator also has excess flow protection with auto shut off. I don't know if that could be part of the problem or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodnMetalGuy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, Buzzkill said: Yet another possibility is if that torch was designed to be connected directly to a propane tank with no regulator, then it may actually require higher pressure to function correctly. I hesitate to suggest trying it without the regulator unless you could put a needle valve and a ball valve for quick shut off between the tank and the burner, but that would give you a better idea. That regulator also has excess flow protection with auto shut off. I don't know if that could be part of the problem or not. That's a good point, Buzzkill. Overall, I'm wondering whether this burner is going to work out for a forge Looks like all the combustion air has to come in through those little slots, and it the area there is pretty small compared to the area in my home-built burner. Maybe won't be able to get enough heat of of that burner? -- Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Good grief! Start it low, REALLY low. When you get a little bitty flame lit start turning it up SLOWLY till it's burning correctly. You don't start things at full throttle, not and expect them to work or last anyway. Okay, I didn't read the most current post you have a good point Buzzkill. If so it may be tripping the excessive flow valve in the tank too. Truth is I don't know what you'd use a torch with NO controls for. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 47 minutes ago, WoodnMetalGuy said: Maybe won't be able to get enough heat of of that burner? That is going to depend on the size of the forge, how well it is insulated, how large the forge chamber openings are, and if you can tune that torch the way you want it. You're definitely going to have to have a fairly small forge in order for that to be sufficient no matter how well the forge is built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frog8fly Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 My forge is going to be small indeed. I intend to only make knives. Probably a little bit bigger than a paint can. I could try hooking it up without a regulator. I'm a little hesitant on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The set up you show has *2* regulators on it one at the tank and one at the torch and I'd bet they interfere with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frog8fly Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 @ThomasPowers The second regulator that is directly on the tank, I assumed, was just an adapter? How else would I connect my regulator to the tank? @ThomasPowers How likely is this to be the cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VainEnd84 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Frog8fly said: @ThomasPowers The second regulator that is directly on the tank, I assumed, was just an adapter? How else would I connect my regulator to the tank? You get either an ACME or POL fitting (these connect to the propane tank valve) with the appropriate hose connector (probably 1/4" flare but it depends on the type of hose you have). All that being said, it looks as though your propane tank has a regulator built in to the valve, if that is the case then you may want to get a new propane tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frog8fly Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 @VainEnd84 The regulator on the tank pops on and off. I assumed it was a necessary adapter. Before I spend money to buy a tank that I can directly hook my hose to without a regulator, is this most likely the cause of my problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 That whole set up makes me wonder if you are outside of the USA. If so you may want to consult with smiths local to your area about how they do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnBello Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Since you have 2 regulators, have you tried plugging the torch directly into the tank regulator itself (brass coloured hose)? Or is it not possible to detach the torch from that second regulator (black hose)? On another point, not related to your specific problem: By googling the brand of the gas cylinder, I would guess that you are located in Chile. Your country's regulations might be different, but I'm close enough to at least warn you. In Argentina at least, gas cylinders are a mix of butane and propane, with the smaller tanks (10/15kg) being mostly butane (and the 45kg being mostly propane). If you live in a very cold area, this might cause more frequent cases of tank freezing or low pressure, especially if you ever happen to use a bigger burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VainEnd84 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 @Frog8fly I have never seen a setup like that for propane so I can't say if it is necessary or not. I just had a thought, are you sure it is propane and not propeline? Propane is fairly dangerous and not knowing your local regulations regarding propane I can't give a specific answer, you may want to find a local propane, hvac, or plumber that deals with propane and get some answers directly from them. All of that being said you usually do not want to run more than one regulator off of a gas system unless it is a down line low pressure regulator, as stated previously, they can interfere with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 That type of clip on regulator is usually non-adjustable (in the UK at least) so that could be a problem. Where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frog8fly Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 11 hours ago, Andres Bello said: Since you have 2 regulators, have you tried plugging the torch directly into the tank regulator itself (brass coloured hose)? Or is it not possible to detach the torch from that second regulator (black hose)? On another point, not related to your specific problem: By googling the brand of the gas cylinder, I would guess that you are located in Chile. Your country's regulations might be different, but I'm close enough to at least warn you. In Argentina at least, gas cylinders are a mix of butane and propane, with the smaller tanks (10/15kg) being mostly butane (and the 45kg being mostly propane). If you live in a very cold area, this might cause more frequent cases of tank freezing or low pressure, especially if you ever happen to use a bigger burner. Your right. I'm currently living in Chile. I never messed with propane in the states before moving down here. Do you guys think it would be safe to run the torch off of the first regulator on the tank? What's the worst that could happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 You want to run it off the adjustable regulator that handles pressure from 0-30 psi (or 0-20, 0-15 psi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frog8fly Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 15 hours ago, Andres Bello said: Since you have 2 regulators, have you tried plugging the torch directly into the tank regulator itself (brass coloured hose)? Or is it not possible to detach the torch from that second regulator (black hose)? On another point, not related to your specific problem: By googling the brand of the gas cylinder, I would guess that you are located in Chile. Your country's regulations might be different, but I'm close enough to at least warn you. In Argentina at least, gas cylinders are a mix of butane and propane, with the smaller tanks (10/15kg) being mostly butane (and the 45kg being mostly propane). If you live in a very cold area, this might cause more frequent cases of tank freezing or low pressure, especially if you ever happen to use a bigger burner. Do you think it would be safe to run the torch off of the first regulator on the tank? What's the worst that could happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Is the regulator at the tank adjustable? If it is then you can turn the pressure down until it's nearly shut off, light the torch, and bring it up slowly to see how it burns. That will allow you to see the flame characteristics with increasing pressure and also keep any excess flow protection from being triggered - at least at first. If that regulator is set for one pressure only, then it would be best to put a needle valve between the regulator and the torch so that you can accomplish the same thing. The worst likely thing to happen if it's not an adjustable regulator is that you only have one setting and that may dump a lot of propane into the surrounding air quickly. Chances are it's not enough to be a major issue if it's only open for a short time, but obviously a mixture of propane/butane, air, and ignition source can be bad news if very much gas gets out without the torch being lit. If I were messing with it I'd definitely do this outside and have a good flame source at the end of the torch before turning on the propane. If it wouldn't stay lit I'd shut down the gas immediately. One more thought occurred to me as a result of Andres comment. If the LPG you have has a far different ratio of butane to propane than the torch was designed for, then you may not be getting the correct ratio of fuel to air needed to keep the torch lit at some pressures. I don't know enough about the differences between butane and propane combustion to troubleshoot that aspect, but maybe someone else on here does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Do you know what the pressure setting is for the regulator on the top of the tank? I'm assuming it's not adjustable. What do you mean it just pops on and off? Does it remove and leave the hose connected to the tank and functioning? If so, is it just a protective cap and not a regulator at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnBello Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 No, those cylinders are quite different. I have no experience with them myself, but they don't seem to come with a normal connector for the hose. It would seem that the regulator is the only (normal) way to connect something to that kind of cylinder, from a google search. This is what thecylinder "head" looks like (note that the protection is still on): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 From where did you buy it? I have to say there are a couple of things that give me the feeling it has been tricked out from one kind of burner into a different design, that the actual inventor never intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbieG Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Andres Bello said: This is what the cylinder "head" looks like (note that the protection is still on): That looks pretty similar to the clip on connections on UK patio gas/butane bottles - I have never seen an adjustable reg for those as the appliances that use them have needle valves fitted (they are usually 28 or 37 mbar fixed regulators) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 So, it sounds like it's made for gas BBQs and patio heaters and the regulator can't be removed or bypassed. If so, I'd think it wouldn't work for a gas forge - pressure is too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.