African style tongs

[Matthew D]

Take a close look at the tongs this African blacksmith is using.  This video has a close up showing the details.  I have noticed that most of the videos I see of African blacksmiths (and other blacksmiths from around the world) use tongs like this.  Notice how well the tongs grip the material and how easily the smith maneuvers his piece with those tongs.  I see them mostly used for flat work like knives and hoes.  

Has anyone on the forum made tongs like this?  If so, did you find them useful?  Any idea why this pattern seems to be so common in so many places around the world?  My next pair of tongs is going to be made like this so I can try them out.  

 

 

[JHCC]

There's a good close-up from about the 1:25 mark to about the 2:00 mark.

[VaughnT]

Basically like the Mastermyr tongs.  The only problem I've had with similar bits is that they allow the metal to flop around on you.  Light blows on rough steel, fairly good. Edge hits.... and the steel can quickly flip out to go flying through the air!

[Smoggy]

That pair of tongs remind me very much of a type of pipe wrench, especially the hinge area and I would not be surprised if they were a repurposed item.

[bigfootnampa]

They seem to me to be versatile tongs, but I doubt that they would grip as firmly as my tongs do.  I was interested in their handle work!  They seem to be charring the knob perhaps to cure the green wood?  Or maybe to melt the resins to minimize chances of splitting?  They get their tangs TOO hot when seating them IMO.  If they would melt them in they'd not need to soak the knobs to swell the handles into place and they would have more secure joinery, I believe!  i very much like the lightweight design of their adzes and I think that I need a couple of those for myself!

[Latticino]

Not to drift the subject all that much (fascinating video, BTW, thanks for sharing), but did anyone notice where his hammer hand thumb was placed?  Guess some professional smiths do set it on top, at least for detail work.

[Daswulf]

My thumb often drifts to the top for detail work. sometimes for heavier work I have to catch myself because personally I feel the difference in impact with my thumb on top for heavier work.

 

 

[John McPherson]

I have seen them identified as bow pliers or collaring tongs by UK smiths, and they seem to be a staple item in use by the Lohars of India.

[Matthew D]

Thanks for all the replies.  John, thank you for posting the photos and information about "bow/collaring" tongs.  I also noticed that this pattern of tongs are used by the Indian Lohars in the videos posted online.  I have also noticed that they are used by the Nepalese and Filipino blacksmiths.  I am sure other smiths from around the world use them as well.  

Why are they so common?  One thought is that they are very versatile and I want to understand why.  The pattern seems to be used among blacksmiths from many parts of the world which leads me to believe it is a very old pattern.  The small amount of contact by the tong tips to the work piece would enable the smith to exert a lot of PSI in one small spot, translating to a strong grip on the material without exerting much energy.  The long jaws and small tip permits the smith to maneuver the work piece in all sorts of directions.  I see smiths who lay the work piece flat, on edge, etc to do their work.   

 Also, the smiths we see using these tongs, tend to specialize in just a few types of work, or at least that is what the videos tend to show.  They are also relatively poor, so having many tongs is not practical.  I have seen the Filipino smiths use a type of top tool holder/tong made from bamboo.  

Seems like a blacksmith who does a variety of tasks tend to have tongs for all sorts of different uses and sizes of materials.  I have made all my own tongs this past year, and some are more useful than others.  I have 7 pairs now.  My first two pairs were made without tongs.  I keep making them and am getting better all the time.  

I can see how different types of tongs sold different sorts of problems.  For example: Holding a horseshoe being forged versus holding a hot horseshoe when shoeing a horse.  Or holding a bolt with a head and forging the shank.  Or a blade of a particular size.  

Every time I watch one of the foreign smiths I learn some new things.  

 

[John McPherson]

Ancient pattern, indeed. Here is a picture of the Viking age Mastermyr tools, and reproductions.

[Matthew D]

Finished my African style tongs this evening.  I made them from 5/8 round stock I picked up from a cattle ranch bone yard.  Seems like some sort of medium carbon steel.  Reigns are about 12 inches long and the jaws at the tip are a little shy of 5/16 wide.  Haven't had a chance to really test them out yet.  I'll let you know how they work in a week or so as I use them.  

I am getting better at making tongs and find that making them is a good practice in several blacksmithing skills. Setting down, drawing out, punching and riveting.  Also, barring out the reigns, making bevels, bending and planishing.  After making 8 pairs of tongs the last 12 months, I am getting better. 

[metalmangeler]

having the grip farther from the rivet allows for more range of grip especially with the grip being rather small in a lot of ways a pickup tong, this allows for the stock to change size as forged without changing tongs. Also if lacking resources less tongs in the shop.

[Matthew D]

Went searching the internet for some photos and drawings of the old world pattern tongs.  Came across this article.  The discovery was made in 2014.  Notice the tongs. Again it is that same pattern.    

 

 http://sciencenordic.com/viking-blacksmith-buried-his-tools

[gote]

This is part of "Sigurdsristningen" showing Sigurd/siegfrid (right) licking the blood from the dragons heart which he holds in his right hand and the dead smith to the left and smiths tools between them. Obviously the most common design in Viking times.

[Mark Ling]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 8:55 PM, Matthew D said:

Finished my African style tongs this evening.  I made them from 5/8 round stock I picked up from a cattle ranch bone yard.  Seems like some sort of medium carbon steel.  Reigns are about 12 inches long and the jaws at the tip are a little shy of 5/16 wide.  Haven't had a chance to really test them out yet.  I'll let you know how they work in a week or so as I use them.  

Almost remind me of hammer eye tongs with the small amount of contact with the steel, and that they're very versatile.

                                                                                                                                               Littleblacksmith

[SJS]

Ratios are still important, even though the point of contact is small 5/16" the distance to the rivet, and the length of the reins play a role in how well it grips.  In general longer reins and shorter jaws give you more leverage and a tighter grip.  The overall springeyness of the reins does make it feel like you can grip better.  The stock gripped will tend to be able to pivot at the point of contact thought.  For manipulating chunks of steel, like a hammer head, and using top tools on it thats fine.  But gripping a thick bar and whaling away on it trying to reduce it, or draw it down, might be more difficult, even with the spring tension advantage...  

Mathew D look up some of the threads about Habbermann tongs, you will see a very similiar springeyness in the design.  The hammer eye tongs used in the tool making curriculum is based on Habbermann's ideas