Best deal to buy

[Patman]

I am looking to purchase one of these anvils from a local farmer in my area could use some help on which one is the best deal/buy.  Just learning have not even built my forge yet, but planning on using it primarily to forge knives, and such. 

 

Thanks

[ThomasPowers]

Have you tried the ball bearing test on all of them?  It might narrow down the possibles.  The Mousehole looks a bit odd have you examined it for repairs?

Where are you located?

[Patman]

1 minute ago, ThomasPowers said:

Have you tried the ball bearing test on all of them?  It might narrow down the possibles.  The Mousehole looks a bit odd have you examined it for repairs?

Where are you located?

I live in Ruston Louisiana, and no I have not seen them up close yet only this picture suppose to go look at them either this weekend or next I am working in central part of the state so not home to go to this guys house to see them yet.  I know of the ping test with a hammer but I am very new sorry what is ball bearing test?

[ThomasPowers]

Well you could either search for the hundred of so times it has been described here; or go over to anvilfire and under 21st century go to the Anvils Testing Rebound.  It's a fast easy test: easy to run and easy to interpret.  It helps identify anvils that are ASOs or have lost their heat treating from a structure fire.  BTW on the ping test, which of the anvils shown will go thwap instead of ting and still be a great anvil?  (just checking how well you know the test...)

[Patman]

1 minute ago, ThomasPowers said:

Well you could either search for the hundred of so times it has been described here; or go over to anvilfire and under 21st century go to the Anvils Testing Rebound.  It's a fast easy test: easy to run and easy to interpret.  It helps identify anvils that are ASOs or have lost their heat treating from a structure fire.  BTW on the ping test, which of the anvils shown will go thwap instead of ting and still be a great anvil?  (just checking how well you know the test...)

The Fisher

[ThomasPowers]

correct, so check for delamination, check for old repairs because we can't know if they were done *right*! (And generally they are not done right...)

Check the face for smoothness for bladesmithing. A little sway is OK.

He anyone else feel that MouseHole looks a bit odd?

[Kozzy]

Ring test is only a very rough subjective test and doesn't tell you much on it's own:  Some great anvils have little ring and a bell has the best ring but makes a lousy anvil.  Ring is only a back-up test as well as a way to check if there are areas of the hardened plate which might have delaminated (areas of bad thunk on the face where other areas sound more solid)

Ball bearing test is much better to judge.  Get a hard steel bearing ball--usually about a half inch diameter but smaller or bigger can be used.  Place a rule or tape on the (wiped clean) anvil face to about 24" above the anvil and drop the ball from a specific height.  Measure the bounce in inches and compare the drop height to bounce height.  Do this several times in a few places on the anvil and be really careful to view the bounce height correctly (not distorted by angle).  

Great is 85% +

75%-85% is not bad--enough to keep a smile on your face

65%-75% kind of meh and time to start thinking about whether better is around the corner.  However, still perfectly usable and not a "walk away"

55%-65%...well, ok to start or if you are desperate but it's probably worth keeping up the anvil hunt

55% and below...more of an anvil shaped object than an anvil

Everyone has slightly different scales for above so someone will probably argue with me on my own scale.

Steel bearing balls aren't that hard to come by--in a worst case you can bust an old scrap bearing to get one but your local bearing supplier likely will sell you a few cheap.  Available mail order also--sometimes even available in the nut/bolt bins of your local hardware store.

[Patman]

Just read up on the ball bearing test that should be doable since I have several around the house in the 1/2 and greater size from old tractor pto bearings will try that on each one.  Thanks for the help, so looking for fractures and cracks or welds where it appears to have been repaired.  I work with a company that does turnaround work in refineries and such and the QC manger here told me he could build/resurface one if needed we have all the preheat and equipment here they weld on large pipe and such doing boilers and reformer work.  Any suggestions on that, he was thinking of preheating the anvil welding a buildup "if it needs one" then using wire wrap to let it cool very slowly. 

[Black Frog]

If you go there, please take some close-up pictures of the side logo stamp, and the serial number on the front foot under the horn of the Trenton!

[Patman]

2 minutes ago, Black Frog said:

If you go there, please take some close-up pictures of the side logo stamp, and the serial number on the front foot under the horn of the Trenton!

Will do planning on going next weekend I will post them here.  Is there any serial range and stuff I should particularly be looking for on the Trenton?

[Kozzy]

None of those are cheap enough to warrant the possibility of the cost of a re-surface.  Save that for either something really special deserving of being brought back or something so cheap "you might as well". Just move on to the next or other alternatives if you find one with a bad face.  It's extremely rare that a repair is worth doing.

And be extra wary of the mousehole--something looks odd with the face there.

[JME1149]

28 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

anyone else feel that MouseHole looks a bit odd?

Highly unlikely that old of an anvil will have such pristine corners. Coloration also screams weld repair, possibly even a new top plate.

As much as I prefer the Fisher for the quiet thump instead of the ring, I think I would choose the Trenton. Seen too many Fishers with edge damage more severe than what you see, makes me think it's too likely to loose another chunk. I have no experience with the Soderfors and would use rebound and face condition as the deciding factor.

Or just buy them all and flip them one at a time.

[Patman]

5 minutes ago, Kozzy said:

None of those are cheap enough to warrant the possibility of the cost of a re-surface.  Save that for either something really special deserving of being brought back or something so cheap "you might as well". Just move on to the next or other alternatives if you find one with a bad face.  It's extremely rare that a repair is worth doing.

And be extra wary of the mousehole--something looks odd with the face there.

Well cost would not be an issue of the resurface since they would do it for free.  Gov. projects as we call them are allowed here if done on own time and no charge..

[Latticino]

38 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

anyone else feel that MouseHole looks a bit odd?

Mousehole looks a lot like the one I recently got, but mine has a smaller horn and is lacking a Pritchet hole.  I would expect that any of the above should be a fine anvil for a beginner blade smith with the more desirable ones meeting the rebound test, but even if one doesn't it will still work well enough for a beginner bladesmith.

[Patman]

Thanks for all the quick responses and help greatly appreciated.

[Kozzy]

10 minutes ago, Patman said:

Well cost would not be an issue of the resurface since they would do it for free.  Gov. projects as we call them are allowed here if done on own time and no charge..

It's not just cost but time and effort.  In general, a repair makes a $ 50 anvil worth $ 51...and just as often $ 40.  A better word would have been value, not cost.  No real value in it.  It's a bit like spending a huge amount of time and energy fixing rust on a model T--when there are about 20 million others available that are rust free for just a nickel more.

Search on the "should I repair this" threads for a more detailed coverage on the subject.

[Lionel h]

Hey patman I'm from the Rayville area glad to see someone from our neck of the woods . Being still new and learning more each time I read this forum, their is a wealth of knowledge here . 

[TwistedCustoms]

3 hours ago, Latticino said:

Mousehole looks a lot like the one I recently got, but mine has a smaller horn and is lacking a Pritchet hole.  I would expect that any of the above should be a fine anvil for a beginner blade smith with the more desirable ones meeting the rebound test, but even if one doesn't it will still work well enough for a beginner bladesmith.

I also have a MH sans pritchel. I read that no pritchel on a MH dates it pre 1835. I have one with pritchel as well, both great anvils.

To the OP, buy them all! That Mouse Hole does look odd. May just be the angle of the photo but the base looks too small for the length of the horn and heel.

Are Soderfors cast steel or laminated construction? I've never seen one.

[Foundryman]

9 hours ago, Kozzy said:

a bell has the best ring but makes a lousy anvil.  

 

Speaking as someone that was tasked with breaking up a 1.5ton bell with a 28lb sledgehammer I respectfully disagree. Watching a 28lb sledge bounce harmlessly away is somewhat disheartening! Bell metal is incredibly hard, especially in the higher tin ranges, though its a little brittle and would be an awful heat sink!

[Frosty]

I recommend AGAINST resurfacing, many an anvil has been ruined by excellent welders with good shops and I don't see one that needs it.

Soderfors are cast Swedish steel and you can expect a rebound in the mid to high 90% range, mine runs a bit higher than 95% though I haven't set up a measured test rig.

Do the bearing ball rebound test for sure but take a light ball pein to the face too. Just a gentle tap from a few inches up in a pattern across the entire face to compare rebound. It will be better in the center because of the depth of rebound, how much is directly under the hammer and it will taper off as you move away from the center, the heal and horn will have a noticeably lower rebound. This is to be expected. What you're looking for using the hammer rebound test are dead spots, places where the rebound just drops off for example going from 85% to say 50%. This could be caused by a welded or foundry welded face coming un-welded, (Delaminated). It could also indicate where some idiot did torch work using the anvil for a table. You'll also hear the difference immidiately, no question if you ht a dead spot.

Being cast steel of the most excellent sort the only way to soften a Soderfors is in a barn, shop, etc. fire or with a torch. Some folk should have the torch taken to them for crimes against tools.

Were I looking at that selection to buy there'd have to be something special about the Fisher or Trenton or a problem with the Soderfors to not take the Soderfors. Then again I have a THING for Soderfors anvils, sweetest anvil I've ever used.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Patman]

Well I feel better prepared to go look at these, I will do what you guys suggested in my testing I will post what I find and the one I buy thanks again so much for the help.

[Latticino]

As Frosty says the Sodefors is most arguably the best material construction, and the Fisher has the reputation for being quieter for use in residential areas.  However, all things being equal I would go for the Mousehole based on weight listed and apparent condition.  I like the Mousehole configuration for bladesmithing as well, witht he wider face and the bulk of the anvil weight being under the sweet spot and not in the horn which gets limited use in knife making.

Each to their own.  As I said before an aspiring knife maker should be able to use any of the above profitably, and the prices on all of them look fair.  In my neighborhood they would most likely already be sold.

[Mark Ling]

20 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

He anyone else feel that MouseHole looks a bit odd?

I also agree, the edges looks almost definitely repaired and the face maybe ground? something else about it looks wrong but not sure what.

                                                                                                                 Littleblacksmith

[ThomasPowers]

Without being present to examine/test them I would lean toward the Trenton or Soderfors, though they are a bit light more like travel anvils.  If I could satisfy myself as to the state of the Mousehole I would go with it as it a better weight for a shop anvil.  However I note that it's the cheapest per pound and so that adds to the feeling that somethings wrong!

[VaughnT]

The MH anvil at the top would be my second option.  It looks good, but the rust pattern on the face leads me to believe someone might have welded up the edges some time back. If the weld job was done properly, it's no big deal.   

The Soderfors also looks to have really nice edges and would be my first pick.  While it's lighter than I'd prefer, that's small potatoes as long as you mount it to a solid stand.  That the edges look almost new is a real plus in my book as it saves me having to build a corner block or welding the edges up.

While I love Fisher anvils, the one in the photos has the edges pretty well chipped and I'd pass on it.