Hi,

I picked up a vice a while back and right away got onto unseizing it, albiet with little luck so far.

I have soaked it for weeks using plusgas (In the UK, no such thing as PB Blaster ) followed by a few weeks of electrolysis but there was little sign of any give from either method.

I had to pack it in for a short while as I had a few DIY activities that I needed to get on with!

I'm thinking that perhaps I will try the above two methods again as I'm certain I will eventually free it up (The other method I saw was leaving it soaking in a tub of molasses - which if it comes to it I may try!)

In the meantime, I'm just curious about the application of heat - if I took out my blowtorch to that pivot I'm not going to do any real damage am I (I've no idea if post vices are tempered in any way, I imagine not!)?

Thanks 

You might try heating it. Sometimes the combination of expansion and contraction along with dehydration of the rust may work. Some folks use a combination of ATF (automatic transmission fluid) plus acetone, but that is mostly for light cases of rust binding. A LONG soaking in a penetrating fluid may be in order.

Try heating it and "quenching" the vise with W.D.-40 several times. W.D.-40 is specifically designed to penetrate seized parts it displaces water in mechanical items. But it is a poor long term lubricant. If that cycle does not work than Arkie's suggestion (ATF + acetone), is the next treatment that I would try. Acetone is toxic try to avoid inhaling it very much.

Good luck with that . Persistence is key.

SLAG.

OK so the part that is seized and you want to free up is the pivot for the moving jaw?  GREAT as that is the least finicky part.  Hit the joint/bolt with the torch till a low glow down at the interface leaving the end of the bolt cooler, then hit the end of the bolt with a brass hammer---it's not the original bolt so no problem if you have to replace it right?  When the bolt pops out  strike the moving leg with a good sized hand sledge to get it freed up. If you are worried about marking it place a strip of mild steel strapping on it before hitting. Remove the moving leg and file the joint clean on both the leg part and the cheeks part.  I'd wrap some SiC paper on a dowel and clean the bolt hole as well. iff really cruddy you can drill it to the next size up and replace the bolt with a clean one.  But it would be nice to retain the square nut if possible.

I'd also heat the mounting plate wedge area on both sides till it glows slightly and whomp it with a hammer as well.  There is a solid rust build up and it will require stout measures and perhaps a stout afterwards too.

I have one vise that was badly pitted on the inside of the joint area---showed the forge welds of pieces of wrought iron to build up the area very nicely.  I filed it smooth but not flat and stuffed the pits with grease; it's my rough duty vise down here at my casita.   (My most extreme vise repair was one where the moving jaw was substantially lower than the fixed jaw.  I hot shrunk  and riveted in a plug in the moving leg pivot hole and redrilled it.  It's seeing *HARD* use at a Uni Fine Arts Metals program; students are notorious for not  caring for other peoples tools...)

Don't have a torch or propane weed burner?  Use the forge, the legs and joint are mild wrought iron so no problem with "temper" issues.

The only bit that may be heat treated is the jaw face. Warming up the side plates of the hinges will crack any rust bond.

But I would be inclined to just get brutal with it! Levers are your friend. A tyre lever or jemmy or folding wedges between the jaws to open it and bit of plywood on the ground to drop the moving jaw on to close it, allowing the weight of the whole to do the work..

Copper faced Thor hammer/mallets are most useful for such purposes and only cost a few pounds.

Don't forget leg vices were designed for, and made from materials that would to come to no harm from having things in the jaws hit by hammers.

Good looking vice, hardly any wear on the thread...

Alan

^--- Thomas said everything I was going to mention and more. Try that. Big brass/ copper hammer goes a long way in the shop. 

Hanging around scrapyards I run across car jacks and have tried to get a variety of sizes to stick in places and exert a lot of pressure and then WHOMP it to break rust bonds too.  If the vise suffers it goes back to the scrapyard next run and helps pay for the next one---buying them as scrap NOT "parts"!

Ah cheers, a whole lot of helpful hints.

I worried I had bitten off more than I could chew!

I had also thought about jamming my cars scissor jack in between the legs and cranking it up and releasing it, cranking it up and releasing it a whole bunch of times but I couldn't fit it in between the legs

I've no idea how original or not any of the vice is or who made it but it was the only one that came up within a 50 mile radius of my house that I considered an affordable price.

It weighs about 100lbs, so pretty hefty! Can't wait to get it operational - just a shame life gets in the way huh!

Rust really needs a sharp blow and/or heating to break the bond so the jack probably wouldn't do much on it's own.  I rate condition of vises on the state of the screw and screw box as everything else can be fixed using "blacksmith" methods.  So that one looks ok to me.  Not a bad size; but they do go bigger; I've bought a couple I had to take apart to be able to load them by myself...I've also bought an old small one I could lift with one finger. 

A toe jack could be quite a useful tool in such circumstances.

But a wedge or lever and a thump should do fine!

Alan

Try soaking in acetone and marvel mystery oil in equal parts for several days ,then heat and then quench with the same mixture. I've broken loose several things doing this method. Good luck just don't give up. Give it a few hammer blows before quenching ,I forgot to mention.

One other thing that can help is to use some true pickling paste (from a welding store) on the offending joints.  It's nasty acidic but can strip the "crust" off at the overlaps so that penetrating oils can actually penetrate.  You'd need to degrease the area first for it to help.

Pickling paste is generally phosphoric acid and converts iron oxide into a form which is water soluble.  Sometimes it can open a joint/crack so the other methods can do their job.  Same as the old naval jelly but stronger solution that stays where you put it.

 

What is "Marvel Mystery Oil". Is it a proprietary product? If so, what company makes it and where could I buy some?

Is "Marvel Mystery Oil " a generic term for any old oil, or is it one specific type of oil that is better than any old for freeing up seized parts?

Please excuse me for being obtuse, & easily confused. It has been a lifelong handicap. I hope that you can post a note defining terms.

Thank you, & have a good rest of the day.

SLAG.

from google: www.marvelmysteryoil.com  though I believe that atf and acetone was rated the best in tests for penetrating oils.

You can find Marvel Mystery Oil just about any place that sells auto parts.

Dr. Powers & Mr. Arkie,

Thanks for the heads up.

I suspect that Marvel Mystery Oil is not available in Canada. I had a deprived upbringing.

I will look up your Internet reference, presently.

SLAG.

Dr Powers is my Daughter;  me I'm just Thomas  or the guy with the disreputable red hat...

 

Sorry,

I did not deliberately try to show you disrespect..

SLAG.

Not disrespect just confusion; I was afraid some folk would think I was a polar bear that ran a paintball store...

8 hours ago, Kozzy said:

One other thing that can help is to use some true pickling paste (from a welding store) on the offending joints.  It's nasty acidic but can strip the "crust" off at the overlaps so that penetrating oils can actually penetrate.  You'd need to degrease the area first for it to help.

Pickling paste is generally phosphoric acid and converts iron oxide into a form which is water soluble.  Sometimes it can open a joint/crack so the other methods can do their job.  Same as the old naval jelly but stronger solution that stays where you put it.

 

The picking paste available in the UK is definitely not Phosphoric acid as in Coca Cola. It is a blend of Nitric and Hydrofluoric and is very nasty.

I have some and have used it, but now I know what it is, I wish I hadn't!

Quote from Health and Safety Executive website:-

"Pickling pastes typically contain 20% nitric acid and 5% hydrofluoric acid by weight, although this can vary.

Hydrofluoric acid is a highly toxic, reactive chemical. Skin contact with diluted solutions can cause very serious and extremely painful burns. The extent of these burns can readily be missed at the initial stage, as it can take up to 24 hours after contact before the pain is felt. The acid is also capable of destroying flesh long after initial efforts have been made to wash it from the skin. Very small quantities of diluted hydrofluoric acid can cause irreparable damage to the eye."

full text here...

http://www.hse.gov.uk/welding/post-weld-cleaning.htm

avoid avoid avoid

In the UK there is a de-ruster based on phosphoric acid with the brand name Jenolite which is available through the motor factors, car maintenance supplies places.

Alan

 

Too late to edit... Jenolite is a Phosphoric acid based rust converter rather than de-ruster.

Alan

I would do exactly what Thomas recommends. In the worst of scenarios I would drill out the bolt and make a new but that is unlikely.

In a case such as this when the rust is the problem i would be reluctant to use any organic stuff that could solidify when heated. but maybe I am overcautious.

Herr Gote,

Nitric acid has an avid affinity for organic compounds. It will readily attack substances like oils etc. Even if they are oxidized solid.

Hydrofluoric is Very reactive. Most chemists avoid using it for general chemical purposes. It is so reactive that it pulls silicon out of the glass matrix. Therefor it is used for etching or frosting glass.

Regards, SLAG.

This is a personal thing; but I believe that it's hard to overreact to the dangers of Hydrofluoric acid.  It just does NOT play nice with humans!

I should have mentioned the warning about the hydrofluoric in some pastes.  I definitely wouldn't touch that crap for ANY project.  My apologies for not going into more detail.

With the phosphoric version, I've been able to break the "fillet" of rust that formed between mating parts and only then had good luck with penetrating oils:  That bridge of rust seems to not only be a barrier to penetrants but also seems to reduce rust action behind it so the hidden parts aren't bonded together as robustly as the exposed areas.