Mikey98118

Burners 101

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1 hour ago, Lee Wehr said:

Nice to know I made a one off design. 

The downside to your own design is that you have to design it.  In order to get it working well you have to understand the science happening there, trial and error your way to a working burner, get lucky, or a combination of that.  

6 minutes ago, Lee Wehr said:

I have some more pipe. Back to the drawing board! 

I recommend you look into the Mikey burner since you are replacing the tube anyway.  Then there is no designing needed.  Build it to the recommended specs, tune it, and it works.  His design is similar to what you built so the build would be similar.  

What is this burner's intended purpose?  I am just curious because of it's 1 inch size.

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1 minute ago, Another FrankenBurner said:

The downside to your own design is that you have to design it.  In order to get it working well you have to understand the science happening there, trial and error your way to a working burner, get lucky, or a combination of that.  

I recommend you look into the Mikey burner since you are replacing the tube anyway.  Then there is no designing needed.  Build it to the recommended specs, tune it, and it works.  His design is similar to what you built so the build would be similar.  

What is this burner's intended purpose?  I am just curious because of it's 1 inch size.

It will eventually go into the forge I'm building. 

20190124_174126.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Another FrankenBurner said:

What is the final inside volume of that forge going to be?

Haven't done the math yet, but I'll line the interior with 2" worth of kaowool, followed by refractory. 

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That to was because of the gas/air mixture flow being slower the the speed of the flame front.

BTW, once you get your burner running properly, that burner size will more than heat up that size forge enough; you will probably have to turn the burner down some in that forge.

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You have solved the easy part of your problem--for now. Can you go on with the forge this way? Yes, but don't by surprised if  back pressure puts you right back where you are know, once the forge heats up. Think of your present position as affording you time to choose what task you want to work on first; but remember that the old mixing tube will  still have to go, by and by :)

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The commercial scrapyards in and around Seattle have all gone away over the ears. For the last twenty years I have dealt with onlinemetals.com to provide material to build burners. There are now three other national suppliers like them, and small  local suppliers of  metals cut to order ( check online Yellow Pages).  Its good to know that just because the scrapyards are gone, we need not pine for them :)   

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8 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

You have solved the easy part of your problem--for now. Can you go on with the forge this way? Yes, but don't by surprised if  back pressure puts you right back where you are know, once the forge heats up. Think of your present position as affording you time to choose what task you want to work on first; but remember that the old mixing tube will  still have to go, by and by :)

Just wanted to see what the .025 tip did, really. The flow was quite subsided compared to the bigger one. 

So your recommendation is to make a new mixing tube with the air inlet holes behind the MIG tip? 

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Yes; I would further council you to dump the holes, and replace them with three equidistant rectangular openings, all with beveled for and aft edges; it's amazing how many people try to leave that detail out. You have the time now, and rotary tools (small electric die grinders) are cheap, so long as you buy single speed models, you can up used models on eBay for pennies on the dollar, because of all the suckers dumping them for infinite variance types (which burn out easily because there simply isn't enough room in their cases to house better controls). Fan speed controllers cost less than $20; you can buy them later, and plug small electrical tools into them, gaining power and a better speed range, but most people just have to have the latest sparkly--even when it aint so nice in the end.

The burner's choke makes an excellent rest for a scriber for for and aft cut lines, and a 3/4" x 34" angle, about 4" long makes a wonderful rest for scribing the longitudinal lines. The right tools make so called hard tasks easy.

BTW, another thing that has immensely improved in price and quality are the accessories that rotary tools run :)

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16 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said:

They doo look interesting; how do I learn more about them?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.esapyronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/E3500E.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiygvP59sHgAhXr7oMKHb8zD0MQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0bsQ-qcXqAjGwhvsS3b7gy

Selas also has a brief description. They appear to run on methane.

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Thanks for the pics and link!

I just did a quick skim of the link. Yes, they burn natural gas. I'd say more but I need to do some reading. Very interesting burners though probably not on our radar.

Frosty The Lucky.

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I have lots of time sitting at a desk. Rabbit holes go deep. Last time I was this interested in something was the "No Dig" gardening approach by Charles Dowding and cultivating the mycelium and other critters in the soil through layering with compost. Works amazingly! 

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Heh, heh, heh. I like rabbit holes, nice snug places to explore when it's too cold to go out to the shop. 

I haven't done any gardening in quite a while. There are a lot of . . . books, etc. about what works best, most take an idea past the point of diminishing returns. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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We had a small library of gardening books for a couple of decades, before Kathy threw most of them out; the bulk of those "experts" just plagiarize each other. Only a few of them bother to really know their subject before writing. Dowding sounds like he is on to something genuine though. I learned the hard way that dead soil kills plants.

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The .025 MIG tip rabbit hole

Five years ago I started seeing .025" MIG contact tips come onto the market, and was not able to find out any solid information about orifice diameter on them. I tried again tonight and found a whole lot more ads for them and only two indications; both Tweco and Lincoln sell .023/.025 tips, and another company sells .025 tips that have a pop up feature stating that they have .034" orifice diameters, which is probably the perfect gas orifice diameter for most burner designs in 3/4" burner size. For years every MIG .023" contact tip I bought had s .031" orifice diameter. MIG contact tips have call out size rated for the welding wire diameter the are made to run.

M3-T25 .025" Contact Tips f/ Snap On MIG Welders

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do you think a 2 gallon helium tank forge is too small for this?

Asking for a friend. this is amazing!

1024px-F100_F-15_engine.JPG

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3 hours ago, 671jungle said:

do you think a 2 gallon helium tank forge is too small for this?

I don't recognize the mig tip on that.  Is it a standard wire size?  My guess is that's just a hair too much burner for the helium tank forge.

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It's probably a Mig 21 or larger burner. I winder how long it'd take to freeze up a 20 lb. tank? A hard firebrick forge is probably okay though.

Frosty The Lucky.

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On the serious side, rocket engines and jet engines both make wonderful examples of what can be done by using liquid fuel for cooling burners down. And the more efficient our burners become the more effort they will require in that department.

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