Mikey98118 Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 Well, I started out with a similar oxy-fuel torch background, and had to update my early assumptions through the years. My views have often started out apposed to yours, only to be modified at times by your own. Starting out with in the apposing camp, I paid critical attention to various photos of flames from "T" burners built by various people, including one that featured a "T" burner, with a flame retention nozzle burning out in the open air; it had what I considered a perfect soft flame. I consider this to be no mean feat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 When I started monkeying with burners I only knew of you by name, I don't think we spoke directly until you joined Iforge. I just deleted a bunch of things I've learned talking to you and changes I've made to the T but I started sounding . . . Nevermind. You've spoken about that T burner's flame and I like it too. I'd like a hands on look at it to see how he did it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 I did search Simond Store. Thank you for the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 It would be interesting to see if the $38 "T" burner works as well as expected. Of course, Frosty could easily bring it up to snuff, but it would be nice to know if it is already there, because that would make it a bargain for people who don't know the ins and outs of burners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 19 hours ago, Frosty said: I don't think we spoke directly until you joined Iforge. That's right, we first talked in 2014, here on IFI. It was another two years before I became a regular; after the home casting newsgroup I used to write on vanished, along with so many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Okay, my memory isn't as bad as I was afraid! I was thinking we might've crossed paths on theforge.list, maybe. If the $38T actually burns as shown I don't know how much more I could do with it. I'd like to see how it worked with the proper length length mixing tube or if I should start tinkering with too long versions. Then there's the Jet's position, way too close to the throat but once again it appears to be working nicely. As you mentioned above and before new folk tinkering with NA burners have caused me to reevaluate my thoughts frequently so I won't discount a $38T that is an effective performer. I'd just like to play with one and see what. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted April 30 Author Share Posted April 30 1 hour ago, Frosty said: Okay, my memory isn't as bad as I was afraid! I was thinking we might've crossed paths on theforge.list, maybe. We nearly did meet on that forum, but I was just getting acquainted with it, when you suffered your head injury. So, more time went by before we became acquainted on this one. Then came two strokes, and we are now well matched; all's well that ends well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Quite the pair of burner gurus eh, ain't life a hoot? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 1 Author Share Posted May 1 Yes, it surely is. I had no sense of humor, until recent years; everything is a trade off. Not with a bang, nor with a whimper, but with a sheepish little grin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1 Share Posted May 1 We were opposites that way too, I still have to work at not being a smart a . . . aleck. Much of life seems to be making the best bargain with reality I can. I think the best we could manage is going with a satisfied smile. Though I must say a sheepish grin is much more in character for me. I have gotten to the point a loud explosion and flying pieces is unlikely. Speaking of life being a strange trip, a baseball game had to call a time out while a bee keeper took care of a swarm in the ball park. He was successful and the crowd went wild, he got to throw the first pitch. It's so good to see news that makes you smile. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 1 Author Share Posted May 1 1 hour ago, Frosty said: It's so good to see news that makes you smile. Last century, while still young, I noticed the trouble with parties, was all the people there, who were on the make, instead of having fun. That was the end of partying. Looking back, it is clear that fun is what you bring with you, or your basket never gets filled. Admitting the obvious has saved thousands of dollars and hundreds of hangovers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Experience will tell. Fun is what you bring with you, true words. Mike Rowe says something similar. "Don't follow your passion bring it with you." I discovered about the time I reached legal drinking age, 19 in Alaska at that time and I moved here when I was 20 so I missed the turning 21 celebration. Anyway, I discovered that drinking much was an expensive way to feel bad the next day. Folks who say a person who gets drunk knows how to have fun, don't know how to have fun. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 12 hours ago, Frosty said: "Don't follow your passion bring it with you." I like his veiwpoint better than my own, as fun is more relevant for the young. Honest passions are suited to ancient teachers (us rickety old guys). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 On 5/6/2016 at 9:02 PM, Mikey98118 said: ...it brings up a recurring problem; and that is perhaps a need for the discussion on burner design as a general topic. It seemed appropriate to add a few thoughts to the opening words on this thread. Looking wack, I think that linear burners are the best chance for beginners to build a superior burner from; not because they are the very best design (although they are certainly in the running), But because pipe reducers and various funnel shapes provide the widest choice for parts to be used as air entrances. Also, while there are good and even superior commercial burners sold, like commercial gas forges themselves, they share ad space in a sea of worthless junk. So, your chances of knowing good from bad choices, without doing your homework, is about equal with that of "making a killing" at a Lost Wages casino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 So, why don't the guys in the know, just list them for you; when we can, we do. However, good economical products come and go in the market. A good burner design, done poorly, is a rotten deal. Both "T" burners, and Mikey burners have been copied repeatedly; often very poorly; badly done most of the time, is true of every burner design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 The upside to all this, is that doing your homework will teach you enough to just look at a burner, and know if the design is good enough to be worth tinkering with, if the details weren't done up to snuff. Or if the burner is a hopeless lemon, and not worth the small the effort to change, even if it was free. A small effort to change? Yes; there are lots of burners who simply have the wrong size gas orifice, and/or the wrong size flame retention nozzle for the burner size, or flow design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Gee THANKS Mike send me to May 2016 and our original differences regarding naturally aspirated propane burners! 14 minutes ago, Mikey98118 said: Looking wack, I think I believe you've hit what it looks like to beginners on the head! Picking up typos and on you aside, a statement of yours above strikes on exactly why I developed the T burner. Everything is off the shelf, requires an almost silly little bit of shop skill and does the job nicely. In truth a lot better than I expected but I aimed for simple effectiveness ignoring the thought of perfection. Okay, back on topic. I think to answer one of your recent questions from my perspective, the noxious swamp of knock offs and outright silly burner designs is because of popularity. When "Forged in Fire" hit the airwaves more and more folks wanted to make a knife and to do that they needed a forge, anvil and all the tools you see on the show. With popularity comes demand in excess of supply and with that comes "start ups" to fill the demand. Unfortunately too many of the startups some with backers are by people who think the tool does the work or looks count, etc. Where NA burners come in function does NOT follow form and much to my dismay, form doesn't follow function either The reality of burners I don't think should work worth spit, performing beautifully and some that look good turning out to be stinkers has taught me to hold my piece until I see real pics of it in action. Which leads to the $38 T burner. Everything about what I see in the ads says can't work, the ratios are way off, a mixing tube 2" too long, air intakes almost 2x too large and a flame nozzle way too abrupt and the final straw, the ad doesn't show one burning, it's a drawing of a flame. But it's SHINY, everybody KNOWS stainless steel is better! Until someone on Iforge or my local club buys one so I can get independent pics and evaluation I have to hold my piece. I'm not buying one to check it out, maybe the maker will send me one. If it works well I'll say so publicly, if not I'll say why. Anyway, like so many things popularity leads to an explosion of wanna bes and out of the masses you get a few good things and some that can be tweaked. Most will be fizzles or outright copies. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 The best is multigenerational clones. Someone sees the sort of clone on YouTube and makes his own sort of clone of the YouTube sort of clone with his own video. Then comes the next guy. Maybe that is what my burner is. A 50th generation sort of clone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Agreed, everybody who builds a version, especially with sort of spotty information contributes to the evolution of the device. Each iteration gets pollinated by a new imagination. Some do a whole LOT more pollinating than others Mr. FrankenBurner. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 If the cloners have some clue as to "what goes where, and why," the pollination is going to turn out better Aside from that, the more the merrier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Having a clue would make most cloners above average. . . well above. Have you seen how many have to put chokes on a T burner? A too small jet stuck well into the mixing tube and chokes is like pollinating a daisy with a politician. I expected bad builds when I published the T burner plans WITH how directions but holy MACKEREL! I'd just like to see the bad builds being sold without MY name attached. I guess following directions isn't a realistic expectation. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 As we age, it is natural to think everything is going to pot, and it is; that the following generations don't measure up, and they don't. It is also natural for us to secretly resent how easy "this generation" has got it, but they certainly do not! The only thing that's changed is the level of intolerance. The majority will do as poorly as is tolerated, and a small minority will do the best that they can. Solomon said that there was nothing new under the sun, about 3000 years back, and human nature has not changed since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 Just like Dad said to us when we were kids and after that "lecture" my Grandmother, Mom chuckled and said that's almost exactly what Guy, her husband told their kids and what her Father told her and her sisters. Things change, it's the only thing that remains the same and having to learn to deal with new ways is always a stressor so it feels like things are going to pot in a hand basket. "do as poorly as is tolerated" There's another way to put that and my experience says it works. "People and heck animals will live up to expectations. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 6 Author Share Posted May 6 "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..." When I first read that opening line of Dickens A tale of Two Cities, it just blew me away; it is the best pithy grabber that anyone can hand the young, becuase it is relevant to every fresh generation, and grabs the attention so much better than "life is what you make it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 I can't think of a better hook and yes almost anybody can relate. To the hook if not the story. I remember a few of the number of school friends coming home from Viet Nam who after years of recovering from the experiences would talk about the horrors and also about the intense sense of brotherhood with their fellow soldiers. I say this often; everything has an upside and a downside. Hopefully not the best and worst seeing as what we do as blacksmiths and metal heads. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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