Burners 101

[671jungle]

 

16 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

try a 1/4" burner...

Challenge accepted. I'll have to break out the ol' monacle and forceps.

What orifice size would you recommend starting at? I can barely see the orifice on a small bottle torch.

 

[Mikey98118]

0.015"

[Mikey98118]

.025" MIG contact tips are perfect for some 3/4"  burners

A Tweco (or Tweco style in another brand) 14T 0.025” wire size MIG contact tip has a 0.034” orifice that is as close to perfect for a 3/4” high flow speed burner as parts ever get; Tweco style 14T tips are 1-1/2” long and tapered. The threads on this series of tips are 1/4-27 (their taps are available in welding stores, and online); however, they will probably be plug taps, and you want to use a starting tap (AKA tapered tap) when threading into mild or stainless steel, to ensure that you don’t break off the tap in a hole; this will ruin your day. A MIG contact tip, being soft copper, can be threaded into a standard 1/4-28 threaded hole, if it is carefully screwed into place the first time; thereafter it will screw in easily.

 

[671jungle]

these are about $4.00 + shipping on ebay. 

Do you think they are too fragile to work with?

 

 

DRAWN BRASS TUBES .0620 OD X .015 ID X 16"L (LOT OF 10)

[Mikey98118]

They are plenty strong enough. I use EDM tubes any time they have the right orifices diameter. Are you planning to enlarge their orifices to 0.020 with wire files from a set of torch tip cleaners?

[671jungle]

Thanks! Actually I was going to use them for the 1/4" build. A little handheld rocket sounds helpful! But since they are brass and of a smaller orifice size then most burners I could enlarge them to suit.

[Mikey98118]

Yes, there is a lot to be said for brass in gaining better control of small jet orifices; mainly that it is about the only metal we would want to try drilling micro orifices in.  And the EDM tubes combine well with micro drill motors from Amazon.com. What I really like about them is that, unlike certain blob shaped drill motors that force people to be a particular manufacturer's overpriced drill stand to work in, these motors are housed in cylindrical aluminum bodies, so that they are easy to rig up in temporary drill stands. And of course, they are well suited to do general rotary tool tasks too

 

 

[Mikey98118]

1/16” (nominal) pipe is actually 5/16”/0.313” outside diameter, and threading is with 27 threads to the inch; sound familiar?

2 Uxcell male Coupling brass hose nipples for 1/16"pipe thread 4.7" Long can be bought though Amazon.com for $4.30. Want to bet I can't run a 1/4-27 thread into that for a Tweco style MIG tip?   

[Mikey98118]

1/16" NPT Female to 1/8” Male NPT Coupling Brass Pipe Fitting is available; two for 44.35

 

A 12” long brass tube 0.3125" OD; 0.2145" ID; Wall: 0.049" wall thickness (part # 6850); $2.48 and shipping is available from Onlinemetals.com for soldering or silver brazing into a 1/8” or 1/4” plug for screwing into a needle valve or onto a hose barb.

 a #304 stainless steel tube with 0.25" OD and 0.180” ID (0.035" wall thickness). $1.80 from Onlinemetals.com; input part #457. This part should provide a nice balance of good gas flow and adequate wall thickness for internal  ¼-28 thread from a tapered starting tap and external ¼-28 thread from a die for use as a gas tube threaded into a 1/8” or 1/4” plug for screwing into a needle valve.

All three of these choices would work out well  as gas pipes for MIG tips in 1/4" or 3/8" burners.

Aha!!! We has caught that Mikey talking about 1/4" burners after he said that they don.t matter anymore, because the turn down range on 3/8" burners make them irrelevant, yeah? Nope; I said my tube 3/8 Mikey burners make my 1/4" Mikey burners irrelevant. There is a whole world of other burner designs that the advice don't necessarily apply too; like the new Frankenburner's burners

 Yes, Frosty, I went way far out of my way to slip that in...

[671jungle]

here is a video of that F-16 jet engine being tested.

I put a link as well as to not jam up interwebs.

Its pretty fantastic!

https://youtu.be/Oj4w7i-TqsE

 

[Frosty]

They call THAT the hush house? Folks must be deaf for half a mile around!

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[ThomasPowers]

So Mikey; how would you rate that burner? 

[Mikey98118]

I rate them as oxidizing and noisy..

[Frosty]

Like a politician; loud waste of oxygen?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

Jet engines are wonderful examples of engineering for maximum benefit, but they are indended to change to exchange  fuel for thrust; not heat.

[Mikey98118]

Materials for miniature gas tubes and jets for miniature burners

1/8” pipe nipples actually have .405” outside diameters; this starts becoming overlarge for gas pipes as burner sizes decrease; so smaller MIG tips in smaller gas  tubes become the obvious next step to take. Smaller MIG tips with 12-24 thread can fit into actual 1/4” outside diameter tubing with 0.180” inside diameters. The reduction in tip and tube sizes serve small burners well.

 

A #304 stainless steel tube, 11” long; 0.250” OD by 0,152” ID. By 0.049” wall thickness; $5.25 and shipping is available from Onlinemetals.com (Input part #457). It comes in 11” lengths for $1.80, or you can order a 2’’length of it custom cut for $.33; This tube’s thickness should provide good gas flow  into a MIG tip, and remain a strong part for extensive external threading. This tube will except 12-24 internal thread, and 1/4-32 outside thread at the gas tube’s other end; you will need to drill the MIG tip area with a #12 bit before threading, to avoid breaking your tap. 

12-24 thread has a major diameter of 0.216” and a minor diameter of 0.165” recommended drill bit in stainless steel (50 % thread engagement) is #12 (0.1890” diameter)

MK Products 621-0001 series MIG contact tips are used in their Cobra® MX (262, 266), Cobramatic®, Cobra® System III, Cobra® MX Fronius MIG guns; they are 1-1/2” long, including threaded section; they thread into a 12-24 tapped holes.

 

Lincoln also makes spray-arc contact tips that are compatible with MK Products; they are 1/4” diameter, and use 12-24 thread, are 1-1/2” long including threaded section; and are called PX-621-001 for .035 wires (.044” orifice); PX-621-003 for .045/3/64” wires (.060” orifice); PX-621-076 for .030 wires (.040” orifice); PX-621-0325 for .030 wires (.036” orifice).

[Soopafeen]

Updated 3/4" Mikey Burner

Mikey: I am not getting much change in flame when adjusting retention nozzle besides it going out. thanks

Been working hard to finally light her up, here is how she looks so far.

First picture is finished construction.

Second picture is between 4-5 psi.

Thanks to Mikey for taking the time out of his day to give me a parts list and instructions to construct the burner.

Thank you, Corey

[Mikey98118]

Where is the third picture?

[Soopafeen]

Additional picture #3 early morning test burn between 11-12psi.

[Soopafeen]

Update #2 decided to do an after work burn fine tuned the airflow by moving it just and watching for a second then just before it would blow out gave me a beautiful blue burn so I decided to throw it in the forge for a test run.

Picture #1 Tuning burn 10 PSI.

Picture #2 Tuning burn 5 PSI after warm up.

Picture #3 Tuning burn 20 PSI.

Picture #4 Five PSI warm up soak.

Picture #5 Twenty PSI burn.

PS. Nozzle never got passed the red shown in picture #1.

 

[Mikey98118]

I have noticed a tendency for the smaller burners to be something of a handful. Kind of like a car that has way too much horsepower; it isn't a problem, but it takes some getting use to 

 

Also, these photos show a complication for viewers. Digital cameras can really skew colors; this can make things more than a little tough for people to figure out...

 

at any rate, congratulations on a nice job of building your burner, and making the magic flame.

[Soopafeen]

Thanks again Mikey your burner design is sleek and very effective. I took several dozen photos with all the same basic result of over coloration although it makes great for art I apologise it is hard to learn from, I will take some more photos with a different camera to see if I can get a more educational result.

Thanks Corey.

PS. I was able to snap a decent picture of the actual flame last night.

[Mikey98118]

I'm sure the problem is the camera. I took all my photos with one of the earliest digital camera to come on the market, and never had any of these odd effects.

Did you reach any construction conclusions you'd like to share with others? I liked the little knob on the choke screw.

Did you find it laying around in a drawer, or in a shareware store?

Shareware? I meant hardware.

[Soopafeen]

Construction was good I would probably recommend just spending the extra money if available on tubing for the mixing tube if you are going with stainless it took me around 5 hours of filing to remove the weld seam and achieve good roundness by my standards.

The brass plug is by far the most intricate piece on this whole burner providing massive surface area of 1.25" I had to file mine 1/4th" from 1.5" due to the length of my burner accelerator being a tad short (3" stainless 1/8th pipe would advise going with 3.5" instead, link for the one I used in 3.5" below) but I have no issues with alignment and it works very effectively, I was fortunate enough to have mine hydraulically pressed in almost mushrooming the back of my burner tube but it is just a matter of taking more material off for proper fitment.

I was able to taper the threads on the accelerator with a hand held belt sander so I could obstruct the airflow as little as possible.

Overall the burner looks great and works great couldn't be happier with the result.

 

Burner accelerator :

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Mod30
remove commercial link

[Mikey98118]

I kind of hate to admit this, but...no beveling is necessary with such thin wall tubing as that. No doubt people will push this advise way out of shape, and hand me endless grief, but facts is facts.