Starter tongs

[StephanB]

I'm a new smith. Its a hobby that I don't want to sink too much money in. With that said, I'm hoping to make most of the tools I need. The way I understand it, there are a ton of types of tongs out there, all with different functions and jobs. My question is what types should I focus on first? I got started as a way to get into knife making. I'm playing around with small trinkets like bottle openers, key chains, ect... to give you an idea of my needs. I've been using vice-grips when the material is too short for me to hold on too for now. But I want to make things easier for myself and this will also give me practice. Also what are good stock sizes and metal types for tongs, so I know what to look for at salvage yards? Thanks.

[Anachronist58]

You started this thread from "Tools, General Discussion". Have you tried a "Tongs" search from that location? I just now tried it, and perhaps even just skimming over the topic previews is a treasure trove of the answers you seek.

Welcome, and happy self-determinate researching!

Robert Taylor

 

Edited March 16, 2016 by Anachronist58
psychotic text editor

[jacob's hammer]

make some of jock dempsey's twist tongs. real easy and work quite well.

[Daswulf]

Stephen, look at your starting material now and the sizes and shapes of what you are making. That will tell you the types of tongs to make. From there it's what Robert said, searches will tell you what you need. Like researching types of tongs and their purpose. Should get you some ideas as well. 

[StephanB]

Thanks, I've been doing some research. There seems to be a ton of info out there and hard to find specific answers. I was hoping for a general "you should start with this type and this type that will get you through most of your basic forging applications"  . Jacobs hammer, thanks for the direction. Those do seem easy to make. One question I haven't found any info on is if you can make durable tongs out of mild steel or do you need spring steel to avoid bending?

[Charlotte]

Mild steel works adequately for many purposes.  Tongs made with better grades of steel tend to be lighter.   But starting out you can work for a long time with mild steel. There are many examples of people making small but serviceable tongs out of railroad spikes.   People have also made tongs with rebar.   If you have access to a welding machine people often forge the jaws from heavier stock and weld on lighter handles. 

[Anachronist58]

My first tongs were made from hot-rolled flat bar. The reins were drawn out long and thin, the sharp corners hammered out smooth and comfy, the entire tong(s) being light yet very strong. Also, the fulcrum position is a force multiplier, so thinner on the reins and thicker on the biting end is something to keep in mind.

Robert

Edited March 16, 2016 by Anachronist58
addition

[Daswulf]

Just for the heck of it, I made a couple sets of tongs from railroad spikes as instructed in TechnicusJoe's YouTube video and after a failed first pair the second 2 pair came out good and I still use them often. So if you have limited funds that's one way. Tho some scrap mild steel stock shouldn't run you too much. It would get you started. Bolt tongs are good to have too. Tho a little trickier to make. There are good step by step instructions with images online. 

[Mark Ling]

1 hour ago, Daswulf said:

I made a couple sets of tongs from railroad spikes as instructed in TechnicusJoe's YouTube video and after a failed first pair the second 2 pair came out good and I still use them often.

same here!

1 hour ago, Daswulf said:

Bolt tongs are good to have too. Tho a little trickier to make.

my first tongs I tried to make-notice how I said tried, were bolt jaw tongs, and didn't go very well. I recommend making a simple pair of tongs like flat jaw tongs. and then move up to bolt jaw tongs once you get the process down. bolt jaw tongs are just more to try and get the same (both of the reins the same). I hope you have fun in the journey of blacksmithing!

                                                                                            Littleblacksmith

[Donniev]

I've also made a set of tongs based on technicusjoes video on youtube- they aren't pretty but they function. Don't be afraid to just drill your hole through the boss as opposed to forging it, then I used a nut and washer instead of a rivet. It's been mentioned that tongs aren't necessarily a beginner's project, but if you stick to it you should be able to get a decent pair. Made several failed attempts before I finally succeeded. 

[phabib]

If you Google for John McClellan tongs you'll find a reprint of an illustrated set of instructions for making tongs.  He suggests starting with 18" of 3/8x3/4.  You can make these without using tongs because you cut the two halves apart after doing all of the shaping so you've always got a cold end to hold onto.

[VaughnT]

My take on it is simple:  You don't save money by making your own tongs.  You can buy brand new tongs for $35, or you can burn up that same amount in steel, fuel, time to end up with a pair of tongs that aren't nearly the same quality.

Good tongs have a nice balance and are easy on the hands.  They also hold the work securely.  All of that is very important and it's a rare thing to find someone new to smithing that can accomplish all of that when they make their own tongs.  Maybe you're one of those guys, I don't know.

V-bit bolt tongs will generally hold one size down, too.  That means if you buy a pair sized for 1/2" stock, it will also do a great job holding 3/8" stock.  So you're getting two pairs of tongs for the price of one.

To hold flat stock, box jaw tongs are great because they completely surround the work.  And, again, they will generally hold one size smaller.  

The average hobbyist smith only works with a small variety of stock sizes - 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4" and 1" - in various combinations.  That's just three pairs of tongs for holding round and square stock.  Maybe add another three pairs for holding flat stock.  While spending $200 on brand new tongs might sound like a ton of cash, it's a very small investment in some tools that will pay huge dividends very quickly.  

If you have decent flea markets around, you might find some antique tongs for cheaper, but you still need to factor in the time it takes you to find them.  

Look over the projects you've made and buy tongs in the size that you really need.  Then work for a month until you can afford to buy a few more pair.  In a year or three when you have some hammer experience, you can forge some tongs that will work and look professional.

[Kozzy]

I'm with VaughnT on this one.  Especially when just starting out it's good to have one decent set of tongs to go to.  Obviously one could make their own tongs but save that until you don't *need* to but *want* to as part of your education.  Before you get that far there is a lot of other stuff to focus on--heck, some people go right to tongs when they haven't even fully mastered drawing out or other [seemingly] simple tasks.  The only real benefits of making your own are satisfaction and education, both of which can be saved for a rainy day.  No significant money to be saved in making your own and the satisfaction of making your own will be a LOT sweeter after you master the boring basics.

 

 

[StephanB]

Vaughnt and Kozzy--that is some good advice. Though I do like the idea of practice  and making my own tools as I go, it does make sense to buy the tools I need now, in order to start making the items that might bring money.  That way I can afford to practice with the proper materials. If that all makes sense. 

 

Regardless, thanks for the advice!

[Mark Ling]

at least have one "manufactured" pair to start with so that you can look at the structure of the tongs and have something to go off of.

                                                                                             Littleblacksmith

[SJS]

If you keep forging till they look good, they will look good when you are done...  IF you settle for something less, that's your call.  A big part of blacksmithing is perseverance.  Tongs can be a great beginner project, but they can also be very frustrating, if you don't have proper guidance, and stubborn resolve...  If you are stubborn, observant, learn from your mistakes, and are not be discouraged you will do fine;-)  Lots of ways to skin that cat, pick one and practice.  Then maybe pick another and master that process too.  You will build skills to put in your mental toolchest, and actual tools to add to your shop, a Win Win in my opinion,,, ;-)

[VaughnT]

While I'm on the record as being wholly against making your own tongs until you've got the skills to do it in a timely fashion and know you'll end up with a quality product that rivals what you can buy new...... there is a middle ground.

Companies like Quick and Dirty Tools offer "tong kits" that are cheaper than their fully-made tongs but have all the big work done for you.  You get to forge the jaws to shape and set the rivet, but don't have to worry about drawing out the reins.

I keep a few "kits" on hand for those times when I need a set of tongs for some weird maneuver or just don't want to wait for them to get mailed.  When I needed a set of ring tongs for a quick project, I grabbed a kit and had the tongs made in about ten minutes.

[SpankySmith]

Until I could locate some tongs locally I used a pair of long-handled needle nose pliers I already owned from Horrible Freight.  Use what ya' got til you get something better.  I "graduated" to a single pair of wolf jaw tongs that I still use as my primary go-to, but I also have a Starter Set from Q&D which I use all the time.  I know, I know....I'm sposed to make my own.  I just haven't ever felt the need to. 

[VaughnT]

8 hours ago, SpankySmith said:

I know, I know....I'm sposed to make my own.  I just haven't ever felt the need to. 

The #1 myth of blacksmithing.  I hear it all the time, and I just don't understand why it holds such sway with folks, especially the guys that have a ton of experience.  You should never feel like you "need" to make your own tongs.  It's a valuable skill to know simply because you might need a set to finish a weird movement, but smiths have been buying tongs as long as there have been tongs available to buy.

[gote]

I hardly ever use tongs. I keep my stock long. Early I bought three "wall ornaments" at a "medieval fair" and made them work. Later I bought a wolf jaw. I only use two of the four. Japanese sword smiths weld a handle to their billet rater than use tongs and I think that is a good idea.

I have my work bench adjacent to my squarish forge and this allows me to prop up the "handle end" of the stock anyway I need, while it is in the fire. By the way, I also use an adjustable stand intended to help in wood working. That allows me to lay the piece stable on the anvil when chiseling.    

[SJS]

It all depends on what type of work you do. I use tongs for all kinds of things and I am always looking for ways to improve my processes by making tongs to do things better.

About making tongs..  You don't have to be well rounded. If you just want to make hammers, that's fine. If you just want to make bottle openers, you don't need to have a bunch of tongs, and you don't need to be able to make tongs...  If you get the tool making bug then make all you want, make them as nice as you want.  Blacksmithing is at its base is a tool making craft, but we are free to focus on whatever floats our boat.  Is it a good idea to acquire the skill to make tongs and get good at it, of course.  But if you only have a limited amount of time to spend forging and you would rather do something else...  I always advocate that you take a disciplined approach to learning blacksmithing, which includes learning to make tools that you can be proud of.  I think in general we should have the discipline to try things we aren't good at, and push through till we are good at them.  I want to have a mental tool box full of skills, and a shop full of tools that show off those skills.  In times past the craftsman was judged in part by the quality of his tools, which is why some of the OLD tools we see are just beautiful...  DO what makes you happy, and hopefully do things that make you BETTER too :-) 

[Jonah k]

When I started blacksmithing a couple  of years ago with a break drum charcoal forge and a piece of 3" axel shaft standing in a log the first thing I made was tongs. It took me 3 failed attempts before I got a set I could even use. I find that tongs are a very difficult project but are excellent practice for many of the fundamentals of blacksmithing. Like punching drifting drawing out upsetting scarf welding offsetting. If I were to do it again buy your first set something like wolf jaws or bolt tongs then make a bunch of easter projects like twist keys hardies punches and then make the rest of your tongs because you need quite a few different sets just for basic operations and it would get very expensive to buy them all plus it is excellent practice.

[gote]

No you do not NEED quite a few different sets. It depends upon what you do. For some stuff you need them. However, there is also the Japanese way. I just want to point out that a great set of tongs are not always necessary. Yes; to make tongs is a good excercise. However, I prefer to make things I need - that is excercise enough for me. I think that it is a mistake to start making tongs as beginner's project because someone said that you must. 

[Jonah k]

Ok you don need a bunch of different sets but it makes a lot of things easier and it makes you better. And I am just beginning at this so I have maybe 10 sets of tongs and none of them I made just to practice I made each set for a particular job I wanted to do and thought a particular tong would help me. Anyways I agree with SJS (Do what makes you happy)