Hammer Time

[rockstar.esq]

Thomas makes a good point as does Rashelle.

That being said, "clean up" is much easier if you've got a 2x72 belt grinder, or even an angle grinder with sanding disks.

Trying to get from here to there with a limited tool kit is many hours of work that won't improve your smithing at all.

Lots of stuff is cheap to start with, but you never actually get to start forging because you're forever fixing your tools.

It's very likely possible to re-forge that hammer but keep in mind it's a bear to hang on to a hammer head without a handle

You'll need good tongs, lots of heat, and a striker if you can get it.  Oh and, the handle will probably be too short to re-use once you're done.

You might consider going another direction with it.  I took an el-cheapo double face hand sledge and made it into a flatter/set hammer of sorts. 

I annealed it until it's so soft I can scratch it with mild steel.

I ground one side of the hammer dead flat, and chamfered the other side. I took a length of wood and made a jam fit for it so it's easier to replace if the handle gets struck accidentally. 

It works pretty well provided the stock you're flattening is hot enough.  It's heavier than the farrier style flatters so it stays where I put it.

It doesn't take much to scar up the surface, and you've got to make sure you don't develop any mushrooming on the struck side.  I don't have a striker and it's only used on red hot metal so it's been holding up just fine. 

 

[ThomasPowers]

One of the issues too is that when you have a failure like that there is often more damage hidden in the area that didn't break off.

[JoshuaK]

Hey Guys,

thanks for the feedback.

 

Rashelle, I am also planning to make some top and bottom fullers in the next few months, but I want a sledge with a cross pein specifically for drawing out the edges of 3/8" plate for forging helmets. In this case I would prefer speed to accuracy. 

 

Thomas, I wouldn't say that I have a lot of experience making and heat treating high carbon steel, but I have a decent amount. I've made a handful of hammers, including two sledges, and they have held up fine so far. 

I'm not too worried about the unbalanced weight. I have a fair amount of material to deal with, so if I feel that it will be a problem, I can just remove some material from one end. I'd say it's about an 8-10lb head. 

 

I think I should be able to clean it up relatively quickly with my bench grinder and an angle grinder. I figure I'll take it up to a bit of a polish to see if I can see any obvious deep cracks. If there is one that I can see, it will probably shop up during forging. 

 

Yes, I was planning on making some suitable tongs for the job, and I do have a striker lined up. I don't think the handle will be too short if I reattach it. It's 29" long now, so I think it will still be okay if it's 26.5"

 

Anyways, I'll at least clean it up and see how it looks. If I go through with it, and the whole thing ends up not working out, then $15 and an afternoon and $10 of fuel seems like a good price for a lesson. 

[ThomasPowers]

BTW does it say "cast steel" on it?  If so then it was forged; but from a billet of cast steel.  As you know steel was generally made by the blister steel process in the early days and refined by the shear steel process; these were made from wrought iron.  Huntsman came up with the process of melting blister steel down making a more uniform (and ferrous silicate free) product, 1700's.  But it was expensive and done in fairly small amounts. It was also not cast into items but into ingots that were then forged into items (to deal with the large grain casting tends to leave in simple steels).  However "cast steel" was bragging words and the better grades of tools were made from it. In the 1800's they were producing larger and larger ingots as bragging items---"Arms of Krupp" mentions a 100 ton ingot that he had to prove was steel and not cast iron---(which he did by chiselling a piece off and forging it.) Steel was still being teemed the old fashioned way in Shefield England in the first part of the 20th century although the bessemer and open hearth processes that made liquid steel were then the common methods.

Being of a historical bent I tend to collect "cast steel" items for re-use in replica items just as I collect real wrought iron for the same reasons.  I'd guess that such tools were pretty much pre the 1930's as the Depression put a big dent in old more expensive methods of doing stuff followed by WWII that put a big dent in old slower methods of doing stuff.

Edited October 31, 2015 by ThomasPowers

[JoshuaK]

It doesn't say cast steel on it, I just assume it is cast because of the lines running along the sides of the hammer. But i really don't know that much about industrial processes. Maybe it is forged? 

[ThomasPowers]

lines running down the sides of it more likely mean drop forged in dies and not fettled much.

[Smoggy]

I think I would simply clean up one good face with a grind and use as is. Maybe in the future when you're capabilities in terms of skill and equipment permit, reshape it.

[JoshuaK]

Thomas, I was thinking that was a possibility as well. 

 

Smoggy, what would be your bench mark for appropriate skill? 

[Smoggy]

I would say, probably when you are at the point where you would not have asked the questions.

[Dogsoldat]

Back end of my brothers splitting maul looked like that.  Took the angle grinder to it and cleaned out any cracks and spots that looked like they would make cold shuts. Hardest part was holding onto it.  A good long heat and soak and it shaped easily enough.  may have helped that the handle was burnt out when the wood pile it was resting on burned up.  Just left it normalized from forging.  Rather it mushroom than chip on him.  As for hardening anyones guess but there are a few industrial hammer making videos on youtube that show their process.  One that sticks in my mind has two brine jets spraying on each of the hammer faces.  

[Forging Carver]

Heres a rounding hammer I made from a Harbor Freight 2.5 pound sledge. It got a bit warm and I hope the temper didnt come out. Also the grinds look a bit uneven, is this an issue? Thanks

 

 

[Foundryman]

The best way to know if the grinds are ok is to use the hammer and look at the marks it leaves on the steel, then you can see if it's coming down too much on one side and will be able to adjust the shape of the hammer head to your personal forging style. I wouldn't worry too much about it getting too hot in the grinding, in my experience modern store bought hammers are generally fairly soft anyway, I guess they don't want the court case if someone gets blinded by a chip!

 

it looks like a good forging hammer to me, time to put it to work!

[Forging Carver]

ok thanks can't wait to forge a leaf with it. The only issue is that first I need to make a fuller to vein the leaves, then I can try both out. I am aiming towards the kind of one brazeal uses in his leaf keychain video. With the warmness, would t be a bad idea for me to take the handle off then re heat treat it to get it harder than it is?

Edited November 1, 2015 by Forging Carver

[DSW]

Did it run colors? If it didn't, chances are you didn't change the heat treatment. I'm also not talking about tiny areas either. I'm talking about areas changing color the size of a nickle or larger. Tiny color changes probably got ground out and wouldn't have any effect.

[arkie]

Carver, I did the mod like yours on a 3# driller's/engineer's hammer (Stanley, I believe) a couple of years ago and it worked out great.  It's one of my go-to hammers.  I use it all the time.

I ground the rounding face slowly with an angle grinder, constantly moving all over the face, and testing with my hand for heat.  It took most of an afternoon, but If it ever got to be uncomfortable to the touch, I stopped.  The cooler mass in the head will usually keep it from overheating if you use that approach.  The final finish and polish was done likewise.  It never got hot enough to affect any temper in the head.  It came with a wooden handle, so I left it as is.  For the flat face, I put a VERY slight crown on it, as a perfectly flat face often leaves hammer marks.

[ThomasPowers]

Yes No Maybe depending on how hard the face is---we can't tell, you can. How hard you like your hammers to be---we can't tell, you can. And what type of smithing you plan to use it for---we can't tell you can.  See where this is heading?  You have to either tell us all the details; or make up your mind yourself.  I would suggest using it and seeing if you like it or if it would suit you better softer or harder.

[Smoggy]

Did you grind it at a wheel or with a hand grinder holding it in a vice? If the later, there is a good chance the vice would have soaked a deal of heat up. The only way to know is to use it and see how it goes.

[NickOHH]

Nice , I have a 3# drilling hammer that I modded into a rounding hammer, it's my go to unless I'm forging bigger stock then I go for my 4.5# cross peen. I cooled in water while I was shaping it on a 6" disc grinder running 60 grit paper, but only a few times, it would take a good bit of grinding to over heat it I do believe even hot to touch isn't all that hot in the realm of steel. 

[Takeru691]

Interesting, i was thinking of doing the same thing with the same hammer i have. Did you use a flap disk with a grinder? If so, what grit did you use. 

[Forging Carver]

Thanks for the help everyone. I used a belt sander believe it or not. It is pretty hard to explain what I did but I will give it a go.  I knocked down the corners at a steep angle moving the hammer around in a circle so that all the corners and edges were being grinded. I did this a lot and then I started to rouck the hammer in a circular motion to smooth it up and make it rounder. The best way to really find how to do it is to go out and grind it. It will come to you there. An angle grinder would have been better I think. Hope this helps

 

[arkie]

Belt sander...angle grinder...it really doesn't matter.  Just so you can get the shape you desire without overheating the hammer faces.  I've used both.

[rthibeau]

I reshape store bought hammers all the time......the Mexican ones are good steel, but poorly heat treated or handled.......then I heat treat them properly and rehandle them

[Charles R. Stevens]

Drillers hammers tend to be soft from the get go, as they are desined to srile other tools. I use double jacks for such mods and reserve the drilling hammer for tooling

Have two, one small Japanese and one stanly 

[notownkid]

looks like it came from the Flintstones,  conversation piece maybe, using hammer???????

[JoshuaK]

Hey so it looks like a couple of threads have gotten stuck together now? That's confusing.

 

Anyway, an update on the one about the beat up old sledge hammer. All the negative responses almost had me thinking that it really wouldn't work out for some reason. I did it anyway, and it worked out fine. Sure a lot of work though. It's annealing now, but I won't get a chance to heat treat it until next week.