Bad omen?

[Seek]

Hi all,

 

I'm new here, because I have the urge to shape some steel. But it sure ain't easy to get started! I want to make a simple forge with a brake rotor in a steel table.

First I found a nice piece of stainless sheet at work. When using the angle grinder to cut it to size I managed to trip the fire alarm. That caused some angry looks from the boss.

Next I went to the car wrecker to look around for a cheap rotor. There I sliced up my thumb on a sharp edge from an oildrum. Needed a couple of stitches.

In the mean time I ordered a second hand blower. On arrival, it didn't work. I have to send it back.

I don't think I ever entered a new hobby with so many obstacles!

 

[notownkid]

The cost of the stitches and your time you could have gone to an auto parts store and bought a new brake drum, one of the Chinese cheap ones for $20-30.  I don't believe you want fire and high heat on stainless,   Used blower not working is an age old problem buying anything used without seeing it first. 

Your desired "New Hobby" and "so many obstacles" also isn't unusual.  This isn't a throw the switch and its up and running hobby, some of us have been at this 10-20-30 yrs and still getting tools and items. 

By the sounds of it what you are experiencing is about normal!  Good Luck, It will improve, take your time, relax, or as my old Mom would tell me "It comes to he who waits". 

Before some else does mention it where are you from.  Nice to put it on your profile as there may be another blacksmith in your town or area that might give you a hand or advice.  This is a world wide forum. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Your going about it the hard way. Brake drum/rotor forges are more trouble than they are worth. You would have been better to fold up a box and build a side blast

[Nobody Special]

Lol, nope. Sounds like a day getting started. Also expect black snot, contusions, smashed bits and pieces, blood blisters, regular blisters, frequent stupidly small second degree burns, flaming clothes (pyrolytic, not FABULOUS!!! ) and empty wallet syndrome.

Not a fan of drums, but never found rotors to be too much trouble, if everything else is set up right and you build them into a good table.

[Seek]

Ha ha, I can hanfle some obstacles along the way. I'm still anxious to get going, but trying to be cheap can turn out costly.

What's wrong with stainless and high heat? I think the rotor will take most of the heat. The stainless is jst the table around it.

 

BTW, I am from the Netherlands. I will update the profile.

 

 

[neg]

Before you send back your blower, tell us what kind it is and somebody around here can probably tell you how to fix it.

[Seek]

It is one of these plastic blowers used for bouncy toy castles and the like. It doesn't want to start, only makes a little noise. When I give it a bumpstart with a stick it will work allright. But I don't see me poking inside with a stick all the time I want to use it.

[JHCC]

It ain't a project until someone bleeds.

[Squirrelonastick]

Ha ha, I can hanfle some obstacles along the way. I'm still anxious to get going, but trying to be cheap can turn out costly.

What's wrong with stainless and high heat? I think the rotor will take most of the heat. The stainless is jst the table around it.

 

BTW, I am from the Netherlands. I will update the profile.

 

 

I believe ( a senior member can correct me if I'm mistaken) that stainless steel contains chrome and can put out toxins and carcinogens when heated.  The age old "no rust don't trust".

 Although, maybe since it's only the surrounding table it won't heat enough to worry? Me personally I wont put any galvanized or stainless anywhere near my forge, simply because I do not know enough about the metals to be safe.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Just don't make it a sparkler. Havent herd any isues forging or welding the stuff

[Charlotte]

I believe ( a senior member can correct me if I'm mistaken) that stainless steel contains chrome and can put out toxins and carcinogens when heated.  The age old "no rust don't trust".

 Although, maybe since it's only the surrounding table it won't heat enough to worry? Me personally I wont put any galvanized or stainless anywhere near my forge, simply because I do not know enough about the metals to be safe.

Stainless is not toxic under most normal conditions.  Chrome in its chemically combined form can be very poisonous  as when electro plating or electro striping rust from chrome containing steels.   as a forge bottom hearth plate it is not dangerous. 

Just don't make it a sparkler. Havent herd any isues forging or welding the stuff

The real story.  Matter of fact manganese, which shows up in many steels, is more dangerous on a routine basis.  So Charles said --- making sparklers is dangerous other wise forge ahead

 

[Seek]

Thanks for the information!

[SmoothBore]

What you use, ... and how you build your "first" Forge, really doesn't matter.

At this point, you have no way of knowing what your actual, "real World" requirements might be, ... so anything that gets hot will suffice.

After you've used it for a year, you'll be experienced enough to judge for yourself what you need.

At this point, ... KISS.

 

.

[Seek]

Yup, I found an old hairdryer. That'll do for a while.

 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Seek, glad to have you. A blow drier will work a charm just forget the heat you only need the air.

Smoothbore and I agree about first forges, don't sweat it you just need a safe, hot fire for now. Most of us tend to design and build sore really grandiose equipment when we're getting started at a new craft. All normal stuff. I hope the "Normal" remark didn't come across like an insult. 

Just slow down a little you'll shed less blood.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Stephen Jones]

Dont worry about the cut.. few months and you'll ignore it and keep on forging. 

Welcome to IFI new blood is always welcome.

Like frosty said a hair dryer is a great cheap blower just get rid of the heat setting. 

A small prayer to Vulcan might help bring better omens.

 

[Seek]

Thanks for the friendly welcome. I sure did slow down, this thumb needs a few more days to heal.

I also picked up some scaffolding tubes and couplings for the air ductwork. I don't think I can buy the steel drain pipes overhere that are usually used in these brake drum forges. But the scaffolding looks pretty stout and usefull too.

 

[Chris Comtois]

Lol, nope. Sounds like a day getting started. Also expect black snot, contusions, smashed bits and pieces, blood blisters, regular blisters, frequent stupidly small second degree burns, flaming clothes (pyrolytic, not FABULOUS!!! ) and empty wallet syndrome.

Not a fan of drums, but never found rotors to be too much trouble, if everything else is set up right and you build them into a good table.

You have just described my weekend. 

[Nobody Special]

Get the walmart type cheap dimmer switch to go with that hair dryer, still going to be too much air. (note, the wrong switch or dryer will occaisionally burn up a hair dryer, Bathroom exhaust fan works well too.)

Depends on the scaffolding. I think the 55 forge plans also show ya how to flare regular large conduit to use. Build, figure it out, rebuild. My regular forge is on the third iteration.

[ThorsHammer82]

a pipe flange works well for attaching to the bottom of a drum/rotor. or just weld on a plate and cut a hole in that.

More to the point. Slow down. I've found that all my injuries have happened when I was moving to fast, or trying to do something before it or I were ready to actually do it. Be it based on skill level, or shop prep, or what not. You'll find it's a lot quicker to do something slowly and do it right, vs quickly and have to do it again, or get hurt in the process and have to delay due to injury.

research research research then work.

[LastRonin]

research research research then work.

If I may be so bold as to offer a modification;

"Research, research, research, PLAN then work."

Edited September 3, 2015 by LastRonin

[ThorsHammer82]

If I may be so bold as to offer a modification;

"Research, research, research, PLAN then work."

feel free. I guess I count my "PLAN" time in the research portion...

[Frosty]

feel free. I guess I count my "PLAN" time in the research portion...

They go together, the more you research the more you have to change your plans. You're ready when you don't need to change plans anymore.

The sequence in my play book goes something like this. IDEA! (An awful lot of folk don't know the difference between idea and plan) Sketch out idea and what it does, space needed, etc. Do some reading hit the drafting board massage idea, drawings and do more reading, repeat till I can't think of anything else to change. Prototype, test, do more reading, repeat as needed.

Frosty The Lucky.

[gote]

I second that planning is important. Even a simple piece needs a plan. A simple plan. I mean you should decide which tools you are going to use and put them where you can easily grab them. You should figure out in which sequence you do things. Which method you use for each step. There are usually several methods to choose from. Take the simple act of bending. You can bend over the anvil edge using the hammer, You can bend in the vise using hand power or using a pipe to get more purchase or using the hammer. You can use a fork in the hardy hole, a fork in the vise, a hand held fork. You can use a combination. If there are more than one bend, planning gets really important. If you bend in the wrong sequence, your first bend may get in the way for your second.

If you plan well, you can work fast and still be safe. Use the time when the stock is in the fire to rehearse in you head what you are going to do in the next heat, get the scale off the anvil and the tool handles in the right places for quick grabbing. When the piece is on the anvil hammer fast and hard. You are not tickling it. You are shaping it.

Suppose you are making tongs. You want to offset the jaw from the square stock. In advance you have drawn the length and angle you want on the anvil. You put the stock precisely in the right place and give it the first whack. This can not be done very quickly. However, when you are thus far you have created an edge and now you can hit fast because you hold this edge against the anvil. You feel in your left hand where you are.

If something is not going as planned, STOP! The danger is when you no longer follow the plan but improvise. Get it back in the fire and think over what went wrong and how to change the plan.

An extra heat is not the end of the world. An experienced smith knows when an error can be fixed on the fly but you do not so do not try to change plans on the fly. Stop and rethink.

I have said it before: Your best safety device sits between your ears. Use it!        

Göte