Doug Jackson Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Hello all. Pretty new here and have been mostly reading and searching threads for answers. I am in the process of building a shop for my knife business. The structure is up and I can do all my forging off grid. I have access to my old shop to run power tools, but it is a 30 mile drive so obviously not ideal, but necessary until I get the power situation solved. Until I solve the power issue, the commute is my only choice to stay in production. I will be running a 2X72 (220V 2HP), Drill press, Disc Sander, Porta Band, Buffer, 1X30 (all 110V) at various times. Here are my options so far:1) Pay to have a transformer put in and run a new meter to the shop. The house transformer already has 3 hubs and the power co will not add another. Big $$2) Run solar for lighting, radio etc. 3500 watt gen for anything it will power, and run everything else out of the garage in the main home.3) Tap into the power box at the well. It has 220V running to it and it is only 30 feet from the shop. This is my preferred method but I am not sure if it is possible or even advisable. Any insight or suggestions are appreciated.Here is the shop so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Welcome aboard Doug, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.WE have some professional electricians aboard so I'm not going to add my amateur thoughts to the power situation.Another fellow living in the woods. I see quite a bit of deadfall in the background and don't recognize the big conifers. It looks like you have it brushed and cleaned up pretty well around the shop. It's good to see folk with a little forest sense.I'll be looking forward to seeing some pics of your work. We LOVE pics you know.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I'm curious why you can't simply run a dedicated shop line from the house. I would not tie into the well. The one customer I have with a well, the circuit is 20 amps 230v. I can easily see you tripping the breaker is you are trying to run say your grinder and the well comes on. Also most older dedicated 230v lines don't have a neutral run with the hots. That means you can't run 110v power from that line. You need the 2 hots, the ground and the neutral vs the 2 hots and ground you can get away with on 230v only stuff. I dug and ran a 230v sub panel out to the shed I built for a family member last year, then had my neighbor who is an electrician come over and do all the tie in work in the panels. I just dug the trench and installed the conduits for electric, water and a spare in case they later want to put the gas genny in the back or run internet out to the shed to use it as a small office/studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Two things I keep away from when working around my place or anybody else's One is the Well and the other is the septic system, in this case the latter doesn't generally have electrical power and the former is far too expensive to replace the pump if you screw things up in there. I had to settle for a line run underground from my bigger repair shop to the blacksmith shop as my wife wouldn't allow a service pipe out of the basement into the conduit on the front of the house. I had to add about 20' onto the run to keep from digging over the water lines which is another do not touch in my book. With many AMs at -25F it isn't worth chancing it. Doing it cheap can often turn out very expensive in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Nothstine Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Pay to have a transformer put in and run a new meter to the shop. If you are doing a knife business you will want to keep track of electric use for taxes deduction. You will also need the extra power for your power hammer, large press, and oven for heat treating. I would check with the city before you do anything, see what the codes will let you do. It will be a lot more work and cost more, but you wont get a knock on your door telling you to remove all things that are not up to code. I had to take out all the wiring in my old garage because the city was not happy. Also had to paint the back of my garage as it was snowing out to bring it up to good standards. We made our place a rental property so they were picky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Rental property is a differnt animal all to gether, one of the few instences "grandfathers in may not apply.sounds like Doug may be out in the sticks, so they are a bit more lax. Edited July 16, 2015 by Charles R. Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Jackson Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Thanks for the responses guys. And thanks for the nice welcome. I am in the sticks; Washington State in the foothills of the beautiful Olympic Mountains. We own the property so we do have a little more latitude to get creative. At this point if I can't figure out how to tap into the 220 at the well head, I am going to have to go with a generator. DSW - The shop is 225' from the meter at the house. We've been told the power drop would be too much at that distance to run the equipment. Logic tells me that if we can get 220v at the well (200' from the meter) then another 30' shouldn't be an issue, but... I'm not an electrician. I will keep doing some research. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Depends on the wire guage. Bigger wire, less resistance, less voltage drop. Tapping a domestic well's power line may be an issue if the wire is sized for the run and amprage requirments. If its suffisiantly oversized great. Honestly a few bucks (or beers) to an electrition might save you a lot of issues and $ latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) I fear you are in trouble if you try to DYI as you dont even know what your voltage is. Expecting you to calculate the voltage drop is going to really mess with your mind, Please call a qualified and licensed Electrician.My local group added 2, 100 amp panels a few weeks ago, and rather than hire a real electrician, the property manager got a non licensed guy to do the shop on the cheap and we had sparks like crazy last Monday in the thunderstorm. I was told water was running down his conduit like a down spout right into the electrical panel, and now the County Building Dept has shut that property down with a stop work order, and told me they need to decide if they are going to remove the Habitability permit, meaning condemn the property; because of all the code violations there, until it all gets brought up to current code.I have known the inspector personally for 15 years, so I got called asking what I knew about it, being my group. Its bad when almost everyone there knows my qualifications, but the property owners try to beat the system, now we all have to suffer for their lack of responsibility. Dont let the rednecks fool you when they say there is no code at their location, they are wrong. US Electrical code is national, even tho some areas have more enforcement that others. electricity kills fast. Edited July 19, 2015 by Steve Sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And our resident electrical guru speaks...well to listen. Honestly ask an electritian for advice. Most electrical work is in the relm of a talented DIY type person with a good reference manual, but fires and electricition are real issues, as is home owners insurance, atleast get an electritian to size the run, consult on the desighn and inspect the install. Steve will sleep much better if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 As stated, I defer to the more experienced when it comes to things I do not FULLY understand, such as electrical. That being said, I ran a 75 amp, 240 volt line from my shop to my sawmill using #2 copper. I did the dirt work while a friend who is licensed and experienced calculated the wire size and make the connections. When my smithy is ready, I'll be calling upon him again to run power there. Hopefully it won't be so expensive this time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 #2 copper is expensive! Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 As stated, I defer to the more experienced when it comes to things I do not FULLY understand, such as electrical. That being said, I ran a 75 amp, 240 volt line from my shop to my sawmill using #2 copper. I did the dirt work while a friend who is licensed and experienced calculated the wire size and make the connections. When my smithy is ready, I'll be calling upon him again to run power there. Hopefully it won't be so expensive this time should've bought aluminum wire. It's not cheap but definitely less expensive. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light Hammer Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I agree with you both. Live and learn I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I agree with you both. Live and learn I suppose. Not really, copper is far superior. Aluminum is subject to creep under high load cycles, which one is likely to get in a blacksmith shop. It never hurts to go with the best if one can afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarry Dog Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 That and if you have a load spike for whatever reason, you're liable to melt your lines out in less than a heartbeat. I've seen it happen at work. Your friend did you right with the copper. Dielectric grease on the connections for the copper isn't a bad idea. It keeps that black corrosion off the wire. This is especially true for welding leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 You did good, as long as you dont get crazy and try to run 150 amps worth of stuff you couldnt have to wory about the copper well into your grandchildrens lives! Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Not really, copper is far superior. Aluminum is subject to creep under high load cycles, which one is likely to get in a blacksmith shop. It never hurts to go with the best if one can afford it. Concur.In a "direct burial" application, you can "get away" with Aluminum, ... but it's more sensitive to proper installation techniques and materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I recoment not using DBX, dang moles and gofers will chew the insulation and cause failers, this the varmits leave gray conduit alone. And in the end DBX vs conduit and conventinal wire are not that much out on material cost. Yes, labor is higher, but so is diging it up to fix a short to ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Jackson Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Awesome discussion guys. At this point the shop is wired and running to a switch box to allow me to change from Gen to Line. Currently I am running everything on an 8500 Watt gen. It's a pain in the butt but it runs the entire shop without a problem and I still have the option of running a line from the house if funds and electrical requirements allow. Thank you again for the suggestions and sanity check! I will post up some pics shortly in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 You did good and what was best at the moment for you with an eye for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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