Steel plate on cast iron anvil?

[Ethan the blacksmith]

I saw some one on YouTube doing this but cant find the link.

[evfreek]

How about going Chinese?  In other words, forge like the Chinese did.  The main problem about these cast iron anvils is that their edges degrade rapidly, since they are high stress areas.  On a Chinese style anvil, the edges are heavily radiused.  The shape is almost like a loaf of bread.    Not having a decent edge on your anvil is going to be limiting for two main techniques: isolating and drawing.  Both can be done with the appropriate (steel) hardy tool which is designed to spread the stress over more of the comparatively weaker anvil face.  Cast iron is weaker in tension.  A hardy tool stresses the body of the anvil much more in compression as opposed to the edge techniques typically done on a western style anvil.  Someone from China once posted a picture of his setup on the web.  What was remarkable was the heavily rounded shape of the top of the anvil and the tremendous assortment of hardy tools he had.  Nobody sneered or poo-poohed his setup.  But it requires different techniques.

[Chadwicks bog]

I will only add to the silver solder part, check for flat after it is all done, when soldering large plates if the faces are not joint quality, the solder can "pool" and create a high spot in the middle. This is something that woodworking plane makers deal with when they make the nice brass and steel planes. Might be best to take it to get milled when done if there is a large pool.

[falsevacuum]

Okay, so it looks like I can still return the ASO if I do so within the next 2 weeks. How valuable is having a horn? Should I keep the ASO just for the horn?

 

The earliest I can go to the scrap yard is next Saturday to take another look. I haven't had much luck with the local scrap yard. The layout is a pile about 15' high in a corner. I've been 3 times and have not found a large thick chunk of steel. The best steel I've found have been some channel steel welded together and a couple of pieces of angle and plate welded together. Also fire extinguishers, though I'd need an anvil to form those into something flat.

 

I'll see what I can do with buying a forklift tine from a rental company. I found forklift tines on Craigslist for $200 each. Is that worth it? (also an hour and a half drive)

 

Why won't the 1/2" steel work for getting started? To prevent flexing too much, I can reinforce it with 2x4. If the trouble is just weight, I could make my stand extra heavy with some 4x4 or sandbags. My thought is that I can use it until a better option presents itself.

 

Or I could do Evfreek's idea, and just stick with the ASO, let it take a beating, and switch to something better when it comes along.

 

Edit: Or should I buy something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTIFUL-RAILROAD-TRACK-ANVIL-12-Inch-45-lbs-6-1-2-Inch-Height-RAILROADIANA-/251880240746?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa53b766a

Edited April 3, 2015 by falsevacuum

[Charles R. Stevens]

Ditch the ASO, a piece of 3" or larger round, square or rectangle will be much much better, the half inch plate will defect even on top of a stump, ecsorbing much of your swing, but it will make a great chiseling bench or stake plate in the future. As to a horn, or "bick" any tapered cone will work, as will a collection of pieces of strait solit stock. A piece of 1" can be drawn out by hand with out a striker, to make a small bick, a piece of 1 1/2" needs a striker and a piece of 2" needs two (or a power hammer)

you can do free handed bends and twists with just a hammer and anvil, 

seriusly $50 worth of heavy scrap will be a much better investment, even if it's just rail

[ThomasPowers]

Did you call all the forklift repair places asking about buying a DAMAGED tine at scrap rate to use as an anvil?

You don't want a new good one; you want one being sold as scrap. The net is NOT THE BEST PLACE TO FIND ONE!

[falsevacuum]

Did you call all the forklift repair places asking about buying a DAMAGED tine at scrap rate to use as an anvil?

You don't want a new good one; you want one being sold as scrap. The net is NOT THE BEST PLACE TO FIND ONE!

​I sent an email to the nearest rental company asking for a broken/used tine last night, haven't heard back yet. I was at work all day and not able to call any companies; perhaps on Monday I'll take some time off and do it, though Thursdays work best for me.

 

I was thinking I could both epoxy (using JB weld or similar) and put screws in (tap a hole, then use a machine screw) to attach the steel plate to the cast iron anvil. Is that worth a try?

Edited April 4, 2015 by falsevacuum

[Frosty]

NO.

Frosty The Lucky.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

The ASO has to go! 

Even the horns are not that great, they get damaged too easily.

Plenty ff other uses for the 1/2" plate, leave it for later.

Forklift repair shops, rental yards, big warehouses,scrap yards are all good places to check for bent tines.

[the iron dwarf]

As a hard adhesive wont work the only thing I think I would try is the silicone adhesive used in glazing and around baths.

it is extremely adhesive and flexible, used it in the past to fix rear view mirror on windscreen in my vehicles and when the screen needed to be replaced pulling off the mirror took a layer of glass with it, used it for exhaust sealer when I had to refit a pipe onto the manifold and after over a year found it difficult to remove.

both surfaces must be clean and very flat, put a thick line down the middle and clap down top plate very tight then leave for a month or more to cure.

 

it may last 5 minutes or 5 years, I dont know, a very thin film of this may or may not work, probably not

best thing to do is send back the ASO and buy a block of steel

[Frosty]

Geeze. <sigh> Glue will NOT work, soft glue like silicone will absorb a huge amount of energy crossing the join, it will be lost. Laying the steel plate on a block of wood will give about the same results. Hard glue will just be crushed in the join. Bolts can NOT couple the two well enough to not rattle energy away in the join.

I'm sorry I brought up the silver soldering a face on an ASO idea, it's lead to WAY too many unworkable suggestions.

Frosty The Lucky.

[falsevacuum]

Okay, it looks like any upgrades are going to be very difficult and expensive, and getting a proper anvil (incl. a forklift tine or similar scrap) will take a lot of time or a lot of money that I don't really want to do before I've even lifted a hammer.

I'm going to use my cast iron anvil to get me by until the New England Blacksmith's conference, at which point I'll buy a real anvil.

 

For the record, I went to the scrap yard and there wasn't anything useful that I could get. I was thinking about welding some channel steel together and grinding it down for a horn, but all of the channel steel was trapped under a giant pile of rebar and I couldn't free it.

Edited April 5, 2015 by falsevacuum

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Doesn't sound like you have exhausted all of your options yet. One scrapyard doesn't complete a search. Did you ask the guys who work the yard if they had what you are looking for? They may know of a piece somewhere they could retrieve for you. Have you asked all of your friends if they know of something you can use?

As for the horn. Most of what I have done did not require a horn, probably in the 95% range.  It all depends on what you are making.

I know you want to get going, BUT, using the ASO is just throwing money out the window in my opinion. Why? They are soft, they offer no rebound, and they will dent and chip up easily. Kind of like entering the Indy 500 with a Trabant....... You can buy a better piece of new steel with the money from the return.  Shoot, someone on here could mail you a 70# chunk in a flat rate box for less. 

Spend you money wisely, and you will be forging better faster.

Edited April 5, 2015 by BIGGUNDOCTOR

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Tractor repair shops, heavy equipment repair, train yards, equipment rental yards, mining operations, big industrial companies, etc.  Just give the office a call. If they are a really big company, ask for the person who handles the scrap metals. A lot of times when they hear that you are wanting to get started in smithing they are more apt to help than if you are a vendor.

Edited April 5, 2015 by BIGGUNDOCTOR

[Frosty]

Did you bring the scrap yard guys a box of donuts and tell them what you're looking for? You will be AMAZED how a little PR will work for you.

Have you checked with heavy equipment repair shops?

Horns aren't necessary at all, I almost never use one and then for a bottom drawing die. It's much faster to true up circles with a bending fork than over a horn and the darned things actually make turning circles, scrolls, etc.. harder and slower.

Having special tools is a new guy trait in any craft but it isn't the tools that do the job, it's the craftsman. Once you develop your skills you won't need all the fancy junk in your way. How much time and money have you wasted looking for a "real" anvil instead of learning to blacksmith?

Frosty The Lucky.