best place to find tools

[Shamus Blargostadt]

Where would a beginner (without bags of money laying around all over the place) do best in finding some hammers and tongs to get started with?  ebay seems to kill you on shipping costs, due to the weight of things.

Can anyone give a rough idea of what one would expect to pay for hammers in the 3lb-5lb range, and tongs?

Also if there are "bare necessity" types of hammers, hardy hole tools, and tongs one should pursue to start with I'd appreciate the tips. We plan to focus on knife making and perhaps some simple projects like hooks and camping gear.

 

[GottMitUns]

Most of my hammers came from junk shops and yard sales for $2.00-4.00.  My original cutting hardie  finally gave out yesterday. it was a piece of leaf spring welded to a 1" square bar that fit my hardie hole.

tongs are where you find them and range from dirt cheap to way to much!   When I started I made a set by welding 3/8" rod to a pair of cheap pliers, then I made a unusable set, then a almost usable set, then a butt ugly set, them a ugly set,,,,,,. See the progression here.

 

If you can find a few feet of square tube or square bar that fits you hardie hole grab it and a few feet of 1/2" x 1' bar to make tongs of.

A couple of other things to pick up when you run across them are.

3/4 ton truck coil spring (large punches)

Small car coil spring (small punches)

3/4 ton truck leaf spring (tools)

 

Hope this helps

 

Russell

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning, Shamus,

A good place to start is to purchase "A Blacksmithing Primer" by Randy McDaniel (who sometimes is here on these humble pages). Randy explains things in simple language and starts you on the road of making your own Tools.  Pick up a package of Plasticene, or Play-Dough, or Modelers Clay, or Cookie Dough. Make what you would like with your fingers, hands, hammer, stick, whatever. Dough works the same way as Steel!!!! If you use Cookie Dough, don't tell Mom, she might find the Cookies crunchy.

You can buy hammers at 'Garage Sales', a hammer is a heavy lump with a Handle. There is no incorrect Hammer, there are Hammers that are heavier and some that have different shapes, but a basic Hammer is a Hammer. When you buy a Hammer, probably the first thing that you do is to go to the grinder or belt grinder and radius the edges of the hammer face. Sharp edges will make cracks in your work.

Look at all the old residence or farm sales and you will find Blacksmith Tools, Tongs, etc. or there are a half dozen businesses here that make and sell those Tools, Tongs. If you don't have tongs, do you have vise-grips? There are no Blacksmith Police, you don't have to ask permission from someone before you use something for other than what it was originally intended.

Start simple, don't make a requirement list and try to fill it. Blacksmithing is (1) Heat something up (with what, who cares).   (2) Hold it with something else (you can't hold it for long with your hands/fingers).   (3) Hit it with something on a stick (some call it a Hammer) on something hard (some call it an Anvil, an anvil could be anything or any shape). (4) When what you are hitting loses it's red colour, STOP HITTING, Heat it again. Repeat as many times as it takes to make the shape you wanted or weren't trying to do, but it appeared. Simply Magic. The more you repeat the process, the more you will learn what tools you would like. Then make your own Tools!!!!

K.I.S.S.

Neil

 

 

[Shamus Blargostadt]

haha love it. Thanks for the responses. I can stop watching for the blacksmith police now

One thing I was concerned about was the hardness of hammers and if there was something unique about ones made to pound hot steel as opposed to pounding other things. The local store had a "drill hammer" (whatever that is) that looked like a 3lb-ish sized small sledge that looked like it might fit the bill.

 

[JME1149]

Shamus, Check your messages. I sent you info about connecting with local groups who are also an amazing source of where to buy/borrow tools or teach you how to make your own. The experienced smiths close to home are going to have the best knowledge of where to pick up things without paying collector prices. Also don't forget to have your junkyard contact keep his eyes open (show him pictures of what you're looking for helps).

John

[SpankySmith]

JME's right about local groups being your best resource.  I've seen whole discussions on here about what can be found at garage sales, but at least where I live you would NEVER find a blacksmith item or tool at a garage sale.  Some places will scare you away from antique shops, as they tend to think too highly of their stuff, but again, at least around here, those are often good resources for such items, with the added bonus of a lot of people not knowing what they really have so prices are often reasonable.  But that's in this part of the country, individual results may vary and all that.  I'm constantly amazed at the guys Up Nawth who seem to trip over blacksmithing tools every time they walk out the door.  I try to contain my jealousy, but sometimes it just takes over....   sigh...... 

[Glenn]

Starting with a hammer that is too heavy can cause problems. Look for a 2# hammer.

 

[ThomasPowers]

The best place to find equipment, (besides attending Quad-State in September) is locally.  The best way to find local sources is to ask *locally*.

What did they say when you attended a local meeting and asked about finding tools?

 

Being said most of my hammers and tongs were found at flea markets and garage sales: I generally do not spend more than US$5 for a hammer and $8 for a pair of tongs.  (I did go to $10 for a british army surplus straight peen 7# sledge at a fleamarket in southern NM and $10 for a set of titanium tongs at quad-state...) O also pick up handles when I can find them cheap as most hammers need to at least be reset and many need to be re-handled.  In fact I like to buy the heads separate from handles as they are cheaper and a poorly done handle adds to the price without adding to the utility!  The time I spend going to flea markets I consider part of my entertainment budget.

[kubiack]

If it were me I would just go to one of the main supplies and get a few sizes of V-Bit tongs, a German pattern hammer, and a book that showed the basic techniques and tool making. Your going to be around $150 but you will be able to get started is a safe manner without using substandard equipment. While you can certainly make a set of tongs they are not the best first project. V-Bit tongs can hold round, square, and flat stock and if you get a few in the sizes of stock you will use the most you won't have to worry about making tongs until you have a few projects under your belt. If you tried making a set you would not think the $35-$45 for a new pair is really much money.

[rockstar.esq]

Just thought I'd offer a solution not mentioned regarding cut off hardies.  If you've a piece of T shaped metal, you can fit the vertical leg of the metal to the diagonal length of your hardie hole.  The horizontal legs of the T rest on the anvil- just like a hardie does!  You can even heat and twist the cutting side to align however you want with the diagonal leg still in the hardie.  Lots of folks get hung up on solid hunks of metal for their hardies.  As a broke beginner, that can be a steep proposition for limited skills and budgets.  I've heard of folks using mild steel for their hardies since it's plenty hard enough to cut hot metal but not hard enough to botch your hammer if you accidentally hit it.

A Mild steel T like I've described could be cut to shape roughly with a hacksaw and filed as necessary.

 

[arkie]

Shamus, you mentioned finding a drilling hammer, sometimes called a engineer's hammer.  I had an old one, which of course has two flat faces.  I had a 1 1/2# and 2# rounding hammer, but needed one a bit heavier.  I will work well for you.

Glenn had a good point, don't get too carried away with a heavy hammer at first.  I made mine after a few months of forging and realized I needed a slightly heavier hammer.

The old 3# drilling hammer fit the bill.  It was cheap; a friend gave me one.  Over a couple of hours, I ground one face, very slowly, keeping the temp where it was comfortable to touch, to a good round curve.  I put a smooth finish on it with a very fine belt sander.  You can approximate the curve by looking at some pictures of good rounding hammers; Brazeal, Cergol, etc. and many others to name a few.  Just don't get the face you're grinding hot; it will remove the temper.  Be patient doing it.  

For a cheap cut off hardie, I got an old chipped 3" mason's chisel at the junk store for a couple of bucks.  They are good steel.  I reshaped the cutting edge, slowly as with the hammer.  As luck would have it, the 1" handle on the chisel fit my hardie hole perfectly.

 

Edited March 13, 2015 by arkie

[Frosty]

Shamus: You are asking outstanding questions for the beginner. A drill or driller's hammer is a short handled hammer for driving a rock, masonry, etc. drill and they're one of my main go to hammers at the anvil. They're smooth faced and nicely crowned out of the box. The short handle abounds with what a beginner lacks, control with a decent amount of thump.

Garage, yard, rummage, etc. sales. The chances you'll find actual "blacksmithing" tools depends on your locality. Here in Alaska it's about as likely as suntan weather in January. Watching the papers, Ebay, etc. is worth doing but a red flag warning word is "Antique" anything sold as an antique is going at a premium price. You're looking for working tools, personally I don't pay extra for OLD.

Do a quick search here for "Twist Tongs" they are easy peasy to make, do not require anything more complicated than something to make a couple holes, say a concrete nail and something to twist with, a pair of crescent wrenches will work a treat you don't even need a vise. They ain't pretty and have limited uses but they work and will get you going on small projects.

Learning to forge your own tongs is about as good a beginner project as there is and there are a LOT of tutorials here on IFI. Coil spring makes good tongs, you can forge them thin for light weight with plenty of gription,  so long as you don't let them get to red heat and water quench them.

Some years ago I picked up a pair of slip joint pliers with handles welded on as part of an estate sale and the lady wouldn't take anything but an all or nothing sale so I ended up having to haul them home. I kept the NOT REAL BLACKSMITH TONGS!!! <GASP> out of sight but being a packrat didn't toss them. Then one day I really needed a pair and none of my "real" tongs fit so I grabbed the plier tongs out of desperation and they worked a treat. They've been hanging with my go to tongs ever since.

Better than any pair of tongs ever invented is the human hand so try to forge any project from a piece of stock long enough you can use your hand without getting burned.

Keep your eyes open for old or broken axles, they're good stock for making bottom (hardy) tools including hot hardies ad hot butchers. They're not so great for a cold hardy but well worth having in the stock section the wife will insist on calling your rusty junk pile.

Another good option is an anvil devil which is just a wedge shaped piece of steel that will lay on or across the anvil sharp edge up used as a cut, hot or cold. Coil spring is excellent for making anvil devils. this is probably a more advanced project than a hardy, it isn't easy forging a triangular section lengthwise good practice though.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Shamus Blargostadt]

Great advice men! Thank you. I went up to this store an old guy uses to resell garage sale junk and came across these gems, all for $15 (through in the interesting beer glass and cheese knife for free!)

 

 

 

[Frosty]

Good score! You'll want to find a lighter hammer though, as already mentioned using a too heavy hammer too long can do permanent harm.

Just FYI, sending pics is a GOOD thing, we LOVE pics. However if you'd angled the tongs so they were laying entirely on the light blue stuff we'd have a better idea what the more graceful pair was. Or just slide them back a little, we already know what tong reigns look like.

Don't sweat it though, getting good pics of ironwork is another whole skills set. Time enough for that later.

Frosty The Lucky.

[arkie]

Great find, Shamus...you're gettin' into the groove!  When you get to where you can use the 3 pound cross peen (that's what it looks like) safely, you can if you want, reduce the sharpness of the peen end to provide for smoother drawing-out or fullering of the metal.  Simply grind a larger radius, as mentioned above, slowly and with care to preserve the temper.  Sometimes the stock hammers' peen radius is a bit sharp for most drawing-out or fullering of flat stock.

Frosty had some great ideas and advice for you.  The "twisty" tongs he mentioned are sometimes called a Dempsey Twist.  I've made several and they serve me well.  They are good for a beginner to cut his/her teeth on.

 

 

 

[seldom (dick renker)]

shamus, check out estate sales, garage sales, farm auctions, craigslist, antique stores. not so much ebay, usually too expensive. i have gotten most of my stuff through the listed places. not all antique stores are expensive and some will deal on price.

[Nobody Special]

That's the 3.5 lb Lowe's bargain hammer from a couple years ago. The fiberglass is rough on the hand and breaks after awhile. Usually needs dressing too. Save it though. You'll eventually get stronger and want something heavier once in awhile. Just not regular to start out.

[Ohio Rusty]

Garage sales and flea markets you can get bargains. I have picked up different size ball peen hammers from 25 cents to 50 cents, most without handles.  You really need a decent post vice. There is a glut of them on the market and many are affordable.  Bench vices will work for some things, but they aren't heavy duty. Some of the hardy tools I have acquired don't fit my anvil hardy hole. But ANY SIZE hardy tool will lock up in your post vice. My hot cut cutoff tool is a broken wedge for splitting logs I got for free. It locks up beautifully in the post vise and is good steel.  I made a couple of lead hammers for cutting hot metal. I used small juice cans, cut a hole in the side, dumped out the contents, inserted a handle in the hole and poured in molten lead. When cool, I peeled away the tin can from the outside. The lead hammers were free to make. The lead heads were just free melted wheel weight lead. During election season I get the sign wire from the signs along the road after voting is over. That thick sign wire makes great hooks and lots of other project metal where you need 1/8th or 3/16th inch round stock. The wires were free.

Think outside the box a bit and you will acquire what you need.

Ohio Rusty

The Ohio Frontier Forge

[ThomasPowers]

Ah yes, Ohio, the blacksmith's happy hunting grounds!  Out here I see less than 1 postvise a year advertised; I tend to pick up an extra one every time I make it to Quad-State to release into the wild here in hopes to get a viable population going---hey it worked for Oryx!