Wife bought me a reprint of THE NEW EDGE OF THE ANVIL by Jack Andrews.
I dont know why I notice these things but within the pages he quotes the James Crans book. I assume then he agrees (????)......"a good anvil mounted on a block in a manner it gives out its full volume of sound is easier to work upon than one where the ring is deadened"

Not quite sure my ears will agree. I wasnt aware you could perform easier work with that thing ringing away at full volume.

Gotta figure out how to make mine louder.

I will point out that the societies ( historic village) director wants my anvil LOUD so as visitors will hear me at work as they tour said town.......

Too loud for most of mine, that is why I love my quiet Fisher. Even so, I always wear earplugs.

In James Crans time, early 1900s, an anvil that was not ringing loudly was thought to be defective or was mounted improperly. I'm sure the decibal level of a ringing anvil is well above the harmful level by modern standards.

Which one? :P My quietest anvil is definitely the most firmly seated and secured, and my favorite to forge on.

 

Industry standard for damaging is usually sustained noise over 85 decibels I believe. Think.....about the same as your hair dryer. Your lawnmower's probably way over. I forget the level for incidental noise that causes damage, but it's not terribly higher. In my time in the army, they let us know repeatedly that single shots from M4 carbines can cause hearing loss. I love forging, but not to the point that I want to go deaf. Quiet em down and use protection. (protection is NOT playing your music louder than the anvil...)

I do take issue with the statement about anvils ringing.  My best anvil (in terms of rebound) is a 125 # Hay Budden.  Since it's on a light stand (because it's my traveler) it rings like a bell.  Well bedded, in lead or silicone, it's louder than I would like, but much quieter.  I can't say that it is less good to work on in that state.  My next best anvil (rebound wise) is a 200# Fisher.  It's bolted to 200# of gluelam block.  It hardly makes any noise, and is a joy to work on.  My everyday anvil is the worst in rebound, but fills my needs better.  It's a 6x5x28 post.  It's not hardened, hence the poorer rebound, and makes hardly any noise.

 

The movie sound is some Foley guy beating the, uh, stuffing out of some poor ringy anvil, like a Peter Wright, with nothing on the anvil face.  You're just going to have to find some other way to advertise when the forge is running.

 

Geoff

When you are old and can't hear the birds outside the two things one will learn --- 1 Hearing aids are expensive --- 2 They don't work all that well.

The 100 pound Peter Wright has been heard at a distance of 4 city blocks during the heat of the summer.  The same anvil with multiple suppression measures has been used at well past midnight with no complaints.

 

As already stated, the ring of an anvil during a demo or sales event is advertising. Once you hear it, you know what it is the second time. It is like the beacon on a light house for drawing folks toward the demo. 

Way back when, Fisher advertised that "Fisher anvils make you money, they do not make you deaf".  Even back then they understood the dangers of a loud anvil used day after day. 

 

I only use a Fisher, and still wear ear muffs.  My wife still says I have selective hearing.

Mine sits on a stump in my shop and it isn't very loud at all. I am pretty sure it isn't a fisher but it sounds  like one. Never been keen on ear muffs I listen to music or audiobooks when I'm working. and the neighbors have never complaned because they are a mile down the road.

My 190# HB is tied to a stump with 1/8 cable.  Without the cable it is way too loud to be around.  I borrowed a 100# Peter Wright for a demo and ended up tying it down with the tie down straps from the truck. 

 

At least 2 things you must protect because they're all you get and once damaged they don't heal; eyes & ears.

I have read the same thing in several old books, including my copy of "the machinists hand book" recommends a cast iron stand and no hold downs for myself, i don't care to chase her around the shop (and I do chase the 70# on my shoeing rig, as it has a light stand. Especially I'm doing more than turning shoes) but as both are ductile iron they are relatively quit. But carry well over 275 yards.

Both of my non-Fisher anvils ring like church bells and I can't stand working on them when they're like that.  I always secure them to the stumps with silicone caulk to dampen the noise.

 

My Fisher is the anvil I work on regularly and the dull thud is very appreciated by my ears and my neighbors.

 

I don't do demos and fairs so I don't need the ring of the anvil to draw a crowd.

My anvil is not so loud anymore, but people tend to mumble a lot more than they used to, and the rest of the family keeps the volume on the TV too low.  :rolleyes:

I have read the ring was used for its vibration. The purpose being to move the scale off the anvil surface. Considering if you were working the entire day at the anvil, not having to constantly wipe off scale between heats would be a great benifit. I have tried this out myself and I did see some scale migration but nothing that would be considered keeping it scale free. I imagine with sledging etc it would work to a greater degree as the vibration increased.

And as the vibration increased, so would the sound.  I prefer a Fisher thud.  Wiping the scale off helps keeps the polish on the anvil too.

A bit of a tilt away from you helps with the scale (if you only use one side of the anvil) i tend to use every side i can get to, blacksmiths side, farriers side etc.

A bit of a tilt away from you helps with the scale (if you only use one side of the anvil) i tend to use every side i can get to, blacksmiths side, farriers side etc.

 

This is getting off topic, but I think most smith's prefer the top of the anvil dead level.  I know I do.

Which one? :P My quietest anvil is definitely the most firmly seated and secured, and my favorite to forge on.

 

Industry standard for damaging is usually sustained noise over 85 decibels I believe. Think.....about the same as your hair dryer. Your lawnmower's probably way over. I forget the level for incidental noise that causes damage, but it's not terribly higher. In my time in the army, they let us know repeatedly that single shots from M4 carbines can cause hearing loss. I love forging, but not to the point that I want to go deaf. Quiet em down and use protection. (protection is NOT playing your music louder than the anvil...)

 

 

Yup 85 decibels sustained over 15 minutes I believe it is. Pitch comes in to it as well. 

 

My anvil is pretty quiet but I make a lot of effort to make it quiet - magnet on the side, big bit of chain over the horn. And I wear hearing protection on top of that. 

The smith that got me into it was deaf - he used a brooks anvil that wasn't properly secured for some time. 

 

 

Your hammer will often ring too. Not always but you can hear it sometimes. Right next to your ears too. 

 

All the best 

Andy

As do I, but i have seen some anvils that has an off side bevel. And when I'm in the field the truck isn't always (ever?) level. So my anvil is tilted, so my reference is the anvil face.

I took some readings today with an sound meter and heres what I got for readings.

150lb Fisher secured to a spruce log 100 db A single peak reading with each hammer blow. Definitely a single "thud" each time.

100lb Trenton secured with a 2 part polysulphide silicone sealant on a 2x10 glue laminated stand 102 db A "thud" with a slight ring that tapers off fairly quickly.

88lb Hay Budden unmounted sitting on workbench. 125 db, reading only drops to around 100 db between blows.
The Hay Budden is the proverbial church bell and is painful to me. When I get around to making a stand for it I plan on incorporating every ring reducing feature possible.

I had the sound meter set on A weighted which I believe is correct for higher frequency readings. I was holding it at chest height.

As Kal said. Protect your hearing the damage will be permanent!

85db sustained, but very loud, or high pitch can do instant damage. I have sensitive ears and could hear a lot that others couldn't. It is still pretty good, but I have lost some of my high end hearing. When I worked at Jelly Belly we would get annual hearing tests. I always had ear plugs in when I was on the production floor, but even then sounds would catch me off guard off the floor- dropped pipes, air lines being disconnected, someone hammering, etc. At the time my highest reading was a 15 with mostly 5's and zeros. Under 25 is considered normal. Many of my coworkers were posting 70-90. I carry earplugs with me at all times as many places are just too loud for me. I even wear them if I have the window down while driving.

The rule of thumb we were given is if you have to raise your voice to talk to someone 2' away you need protection. If you have ringing afterwards you have done permanent damage. Tinnitus builds up over time until one day it no longer fades away. Then it just gets louder from them on.

I use the 260# Fisher the most. The Sodefors, HB, and JHM will need to be muffled before I use them again.

I use ear plugs at work but they are very useful at home, in family, too - three kids under 5 and a wife..., maybe I have to secure them down as I do to my anvils, which are more quiet now :)

Just so we can get a real numbers for different noises.

 

 

Decibels (dB)
The ear has the remarkable ability to handle an enormous range of sound levels. In order to express levels of sound meaningfully in numbers that are more manageable, a logarithmic scale is used, rather than a linear one. This scale is the decibel scale.

What is a decibel? Zero decibels (0 dB) is the quietest sound audible to a healthy human ear. From there, every increase of 3 dB represents a doubling of sound intensity, or acoustic power.

 

 

 

 

Understanding the decibel scale

You have to think about the decibel scale very carefully, because it's a logarithmic scale and it works in a different way to the scale on a ruler, which is a linear scale. On a ruler, a distance of 20cm is twice as long as a distance of 10cm and 30cm is three times as long. But the logarithmic decibel scale goes up in powers of ten: every increase of 10dB on the scale is equivalent to a 10-fold increase in sound intensity (which broadly corresponds with loudness). That means a sound of 20dB is 10 times louder than a sound of 10dB and a 30dB sound is 100 times louder. A sound of 100dB is actually 1,000,000,000 times louder than a sound of 10dB and not 10 times as loud, as you might suppose. That's why sounds high up the decibel scale (from about 85-200dB) are a major cause for concern: the sound waves carry so much energy that they will damage your hearing, sooner or later.

 

 

Level in decibels Typical everyday example Times louder than 10dB
10dB Rustling or falling leaves. 1
20dB Watch ticking. 10
30dB Birds flying by. 100
40dB Quiet conversation. 1,000
50dB Louder conversation. 10,000
60dB Quiet traffic noise. 100,000
70dB+ Louder traffic 1,000,000
80dB+ Loud highway noise at close range 10,000,000
85dB Hearing damage after approximately 8 hours.
100dB Jackhammer (pneumatic drill) at close range 1,000,000,000
100dB Hearing damage after about 15 minutes.
110dB+ Jet engine at about 100m 10,000,000,000
120dB Threshold of pain. Hearing damage after very brief exposure.

 

 

What Does "Loud" Mean?

The loudness of sound is measured in decibels (dB). Most experts recommend that you use earplugs when exposed to 85 dB and above. 

 

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Decibel (Loudness) Comparison Chart

Here are some interesting numbers, collected from a variety of sources, that help one to understand the volume levels of various sources and how they can affect our hearing.

Environmental Noise
Weakest sound heard 0dB
Whisper Quiet Library at 6' 30dB
Normal conversation at 3' 60-65dB
Telephone dial tone 80dB
City Traffic (inside car) 85dB
Train whistle at 500', Truck Traffic 90dB
Jackhammer at 50' 95dB
Subway train at 200' 95dB
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB
Hand Drill 98dB
Power mower at 3' 107dB
Snowmobile, Motorcycle 100dB
Power saw at 3' 110dB
Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert 115dB
Pain begins 125dB
Pneumatic riveter at 4' 125dB
Even short term exposure can cause permanent damage - Loudest recommended exposure WITH hearing protection 140dB
Jet engine at 100' 140dB
12 Gauge Shotgun Blast 165dB
Death of hearing tissue 180dB
Loudest sound possible 194dB

 

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Noise Sources and Their Effects
Noise Source Decibel
Level comment
Jet take-off (at 25 meters) 150 Eardrum rupture
Aircraft carrier deck 140
Military jet aircraft take-off from aircraft carrier with afterburner at 50 ft (130 dB). 130
Thunderclap, chain saw. Oxygen torch (121 dB). 120 Painful. 32 times as loud as 70 dB.
Steel mill, auto horn at 1 meter. Turbo-fan aircraft at takeoff power at 200 ft (118 dB). Riveting machine (110 dB); live rock music (108 - 114 dB). 110 Average human pain threshold. 16 times as loud as 70 dB.
Jet take-off (at 305 meters), use of outboard motor, power lawn mower, motorcycle, farm tractor, jackhammer, garbage truck. Boeing 707 or DC-8 aircraft at one nautical mile (6080 ft) before landing (106 dB); jet flyover at 1000 feet (103 dB); Bell J-2A helicopter at 100 ft (100 dB). 100 8 times as loud as 70 dB. Serious damage possible in 8 hr exposure
Boeing 737 or DC-9 aircraft at one nautical mile (6080 ft) before landing (97 dB); power mower (96 dB); motorcycle at 25 ft (90 dB). Newspaper press (97 dB).
90 4 times as loud as 70 dB. Likely damage 8 hr exp
Garbage disposal, dishwasher, average factory, freight train (at 15 meters). Car wash at 20 ft (89 dB); propeller plane flyover at 1000 ft (88 dB); diesel truck 40 mph at 50 ft (84 dB); diesel train at 45 mph at 100 ft (83 dB). Food blender (88 dB); milling machine (85 dB); garbage disposal (80 dB). 80 2 times as loud as 70 dB. Possible damage in 8 h exposure.
Passenger car at 65 mph at 25 ft (77 dB); freeway at 50 ft from pavement edge 10 a.m. (76 dB). Living room music (76 dB); radio or TV-audio, vacuum cleaner (70 dB). 70 Arbitrary base of comparison. Upper 70s are annoyingly loud to some people.
Conversation in restaurant, office, background music, Air conditioning unit at 100 ft 60 Half as loud as 70 dB. Fairly quiet
Quiet suburb, conversation at home. Large electrical transformers at 100 ft 50 One-fourth as loud as 70 dB.
Library, bird calls (44 dB); lowest limit of urban ambient sound 40 One-eighth as loud as 70 dB.
Quiet rural area 30 One-sixteenth as loud as 70 dB. Very Quiet
Whisper, rustling leaves 20
Breathing 10 Barely audible

The only Hay Budden that I will work on is my 304 lb HB that is bedded in lead.  Whoever had it before me had set up a block of 4 vertical 10" x 10" strapped together.  A recess was carved out of the top,  molten lead was poured in and the anvil was set into the molten lead.  It is also strapped down very securely.  It does take the load ring out of the anvil, but it is still louder than my 300 lb Fisher.  The HB came out of a very old shop, pre WW2, so this was done a long time ago.  Even then they recognized the problem with the ring.