IRon_FOrgerI22 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I was just wondering how long should i do Nails and other simple decrotive peices before i get into big pieces like swords? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Depends on you. How long will it take you to become expert enough at blade smithing to attempt one? Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainsFire Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I would remove this thread if I was you.. just fyi.. one of the resident newbie sword basher's will uh.. bash you. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 I'd recommend waiting a minimum of 5 years before trying a sword. By then you should have a decent amount of skill, money, tools, and assurance that you're really dedicated to the craft. If you want to try a sword, do some knives. Then some more knives. And once you're sick and tired of knives, make about fifteen more. Swords take a lot of skill to even complete properly; making them work and look good is a whole new ballgame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Bennett Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Well, I guess I'll play the heretic once more:D 15 years ago, there was no internet as we know it. I had always wanted to forge a sword one day. I had nothing but the library and an old hand cranker that belonged to father in law. I read and read and read some more. Well, believe it or not, the very first object I had ever forged was a bastard sword. I just cut to the chase. I didn't know any better at the time, because there wasn't anyone to tell me I couldn't.. I must say though that I could not have done it without the tutleage of one of one JPH, via his great book. I hope I made him proud:D Anyway, the point is, just do it! Oh, I still have that old bastard. I chop, cut, experiment with and it still performs, even though it's tip heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 FAct is there is no laws on this If you want to do a sord as your first project then go for it. It is after all you tools and you make your own shop rules unless you are working for someone else. Keep in mind that sords are really not a starting point for most folks that begin smithing. If you were to work on basics And that does not mean forgeing nails or decorative pieces until you can make nails almost in your sleep. The most improtant think is to works safely and develop muscle motor memory to the ppoint that you can pull a hot piiece of metal from the fire and your body works with out you telling it what to do. Think about driveing if you do that. How much effort do you put into placeing the key in the ignition and turning it? That is an almost automatic movement. Forgeing can get like that. How long will that take you? I cannot guess. But it will come and then when you take on a iece as complicated as a sord you will be way ahead and the forgeing part will work with you ..not lack of skills getting in your way. The metalurgy involved starts not with a sord but with less complicated pieces like chisels punches and like mentioned knives. When you can leave almost zero hammer marks on a blade you will have less hand work to remove them. It would be a huge loss for you to spend hours taking out hammer marks and then haveing porblems in the heat treat part of the process. But as I said, it is your shop and you are the one calling the shots. Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 you can make a sord when you know enough not to have to ask when.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Fredeen Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Richard, I would say that your answer is the best, dead on, exact answer there could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mende Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Everyone is right in a way .. I say you should work until you have good hammer control ..and then ..while following some guidelines in books . .start making whatever you wish ... You can screw up blades as well as nails or hooks...at first but then. . .you will be churning them out by the dozens .. Heat treating is also important and can be practiced o stock removal blades and such . .so you don't crack a good forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Murch Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Listen to all advice, but follow none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Murch Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 edited this post to say nevermind i don't really care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FERRARIVS Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I just made my first sword and I've had my forge for about 2 1/2 months- of course I've been working with it a good deal in that time and I did a lot of practice pieces, just trying to get a couple of inches of blade shape- and I watched some great videos on YouTube so I could see how real bladesmiths do it, and that helped a lot with the fine points. My sword turned out wonderfully- almost exactly as I'd wanted it to (a recreation Roman Gladius mainzensis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 my 9 year old son wants to make an urak hai sword from lord of the rings and he has made a good plastic kind of thing and so i will let him cut a simple one out of sheet and work out how to make a handle. it would be madness to tell him it is a task that is too hard for him when he will be so inspired and excited by the result of a bit of work and a very simple 'sword'. whats the harm - it is all about getting inspired thats what keeps you going on the long haul of getting your skills together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 well- to big of a task- do you have the area needed to heat and treat the said blade? workin can be in inchs. but.....i thinks ya bitin off more than ya can chew.....my .02 jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Budd Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I don't think that it really matters whether the Urak Hai sword is heat treated to be honest. It's a Film sword for a 9 year old Lets face it the ones in the film are cold forged from plasma cut blanks, so anything a kid can do is an improvement! generally I agree with the idea that you should make a sword when you want to. Practice and experience will only increase the skill and so provide a better sword at the end of it. So one's first sword (irrespective of skill level and equipment) will never be as good as the second, or third, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 If you want to make a sword go for it. Make sure you have a way to heat treat and temper a piece of steel that big. Look at it as a learning experience and be prepared for failure. Don't be discouraged when it happens, view it as tuition paid. I broke the first two swords I tried to make. Keep accurate records of what you do so when failure happens you don't make the same mistake on the next blade. Remember old I. Can't that dumb son of a gun died in the poor house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Short and long answer when you are ready. I after 6 years of general smithing, I am not ready. Desire will be the catalyst for anything, I have no desire to make swords. Also if you are looking to sell the swords, remember we fight our battles with guns now. Make what you want, listen to the advice here, and go on. Just remember the larger the project, the larger the chance for failure. And if by chance you make the perfect sword the first time, accomplish heat treat, and come up with a useable sword, let us know how to do it, we are dying to know. As far as the critics here, we just get tired of conversations that start "how do you make a coal forge" "how do you light a fire" and then "How do you make swords". You can't skip to the end of the book, read the last page, and think that you learned it all, just because you reached the end. The "book" on swords is a thick one, be prepared to read it all, or failure is assured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 well ... this is a good question and the answer is not as straight foward as it first apears...have you any fabricateing skills? what tools do you have?do you have a good knife makers belt sander?forgeing a sword blade isnt really the easyest way to go the first time...stock removal is easyier the first time and the grinding skill is applicable to later blades ..the reason i say this is with stock removal you are starting with a straight square piece of steel .. if your goal is a good sword this is a good way to start .. use new metal and carefully grind it to shape .. you will eventually end up with a good sword and the grinding skills will help in the future .. you will still need to heat treat the blade so .. you can send it out for that tho .. one of the best sword makers i know does all his blades this way! to forge the blade from the start is asking for twice the work... because the steel after forgeing will not be square or true ... so you will need to grind it and straighten it and fix twists .. then you will need to aneal it to keep it from twisting in heat treat... and hope it dosent twist anyway from the stresses of forgeing...also you have to be careful not to burn the steel or work it too cold .. lotsa ways to screw it up! get a bunch of books on knife makeing and sword makeing then be prepared to spend a lot of time .. and be prepared to have the occasional failure ... good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 If you want to jump ahead to swordmaking are you willing to throw away massive ammounts of time and not be discouraged? Would you be distressed to learn that going the slow route can be MUCH faster than trying to do shortcuts? Why we advise folks to do a lot of knives---you can forge and grind a knife in a weekend and if it fails in heat treat you can do another next weekend. A sword will usually take a lot of weekends, lets say at least a month of weekends (usually *more*!). So if it takes you 5 tries to get the heat treat down *right*; so your 6th blade is the good on: with doing knives you are 6 weeks down the road. With swords you are more like 6 months down the road before having a proper blade. Make your beginner's mistakes on something that is not such a great loss of time and effort. There will still be plenty of mistakes for you to make on the big items! Now there are certain things about swords that are different than knives---distal tapers and blade harmonics are not a big deal in a knife but can make or break a sword that you want to actually use. And finally remember that for over 1000 years the average weight of a *using sword* in Europe was between 2 and 3 pounds *TOTAL* and tending towards the lower end. By an odd "coincidence"??? that is also a fairly standard weight for a japanese sword. If your blades are coming out heavier than that---over 1000 years of folks actually using them in life or death situations says you're doing them wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 what no 30# claymores to sell? Sorry I had to post that. I see too many people who want to design their own sword, but its as another member stated: trying to design a car when you have never drove, can be a problem. When I take on a commission for a blade, I talk to my clients to see what they want in the blade, and how/if it will be used. For a katana an Iaito will be different than a heavy cutting blade, just as a race car will be designed differently for road racing than for drag racing. For Beth's son, and the Urik-hai why heat treat? or worry about distal taper? its a childs toy!!!, Hammer away, let HIM help too, it will mean so much more to him then. Both of you should have fun. As for the wasted stock suggestion, even tho many good blades are made that way... Just to remind you, this IS a smithing site, would he have suggested that a person grind out any other other tool rather than forge, because its easier, and the metal is straighter? part of smithing is learning to move the metal how we want it. Its easier to hire some one if ya want to get real picky about this :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) IMO if you want to have a go then go for it. Be prepared for a disaster but you may surprise yourself and that would be a bonus. If we used the excuse that it won't turn out then we would never forge a pair of tongs, who's first tongs were works of art? Then again the advice to at least get the techniques on a knife or two is valid BUT if swords are your passion then a sword it will be. Edited April 1, 2009 by rmcpb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 i think the point is that if you are too intimidated to get involved in case your work isn't the best thing ever made in all of history then you will never learn a thing, and more importantly maybe (for a child anyway) you will never feel the buzz of "im making a sword!" and someone encouraging you to just get stuck in. Looking at it from the point of teaching your child is not so different than learning as an adult - its about igniting an interest based on experienceing something for yourself rather than just out of a book, and having something in your hands in way of a result - it doesnt matter that its not heat treated and its really very far from being a usable sellable weapon - just that you feel there is somewhere you can start whoever you are. Its the same as if you feel like making a cake - you shouldnt worry if your first attempt is not expert - its the place where you learnt you love trying to make cakes! And as for all the really beautiful swords and knives (and cakes)that take your breath away, that is what you can dream about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 One thing is for sure; The OP has never returned to this post to give thanks for advice or say boo in nearly a year and a half. He's either be discouraged permanently or he's well on his way to being a master sword smith :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reid Neilsen Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 START WITH KNIVES I couldn't agree more. It will only lead to frustration. Make a few knives and master some techniques - then move on the big mamba-jambas. They will frustrate you like you wouldn't belive! They present a whole new range of problems for the smith that knives do not. Master knives then try some swords. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damascus Mike Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 When i first started my smithing i went with my gut and i made a sword from mild steel on my first day i ever used a forge and that was about 4 months ago and now when i look at it,it reminds me of how far i have come and how much beter i am at it,if you feel you wanna give it a try just for fun id suggest using mild steel or a soft easy to work metal and then the next sword you make can be one thats a bit stronger than mild and so on.And in a few months time you go look in your garage and find that old sword and just examine it and you will see what i mean.good luck and i hope it all works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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