SpankySmith Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 So I've been at this a whopping four months... a mere babe in the blacksmithing woods. My friends and co-workers all know I'm learning blacksmithing, they've followed my adventures trying to find an anvil, learning about forges, gathering tools. Recently I've had several instances where someone good naturedly refers to me as a blacksmith and when they use that term of me - interestingly - it makes me cringe. I very quickly point out that I am not a Blacksmith, I am merely someone who is learning blacksmithing. It seems to me like the title doesn't fit yet for someone so new to it. So I got to thinking.... when exactly DOES someone earn the title of "Blacksmith"? In another post recently I was asking about a needed tool and Frosty chimed in with "You're a blacksmith aren't you? Make one!" Again, my first instinct was "No, no I'm not a Blacksmith... I'm someone LEARNING blacksmithing." It seems to me like you can't or shouldn't claim to be a blacksmith until.... ?? I don't know... until what? In the olden days of course there were long apprencticeships and tests and all before you could really claim the title. Now it seems like if you apply hammer to anvil you're instantly a Blacksmith? Doesn't seem right to me, but honestly what do I know? What little I do know of blacksmithing already I recognize that there is a tremendous amount to learn - that it will likely be years before I am comfortable with someone saying "Oh, you're a blacksmith!" I'm not in any way ashamed of the title, I just don't think 4 months into it I've earned it. So.... what do ya'll think? (I'm in Alabama, had to slide a "ya'll" in there!). When does someone move from hobbyist to Blacksmith? When did YOU start to feel like the title applies? IS there any such thing these days as knowing when someone is a blacksmith versus a hobbyist? In the end, yes I understand it doesn't really MATTER what someone calls you, but I did think this would make an interesting discussion and I'd love to hear your own thoughts on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Davies Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm 3 years in, and getting comfortable with "blacksmith". I haven't gotten around to mastering everything yet, but I'm confident enough in my abilities that I no longer feel the need to prove myself or stress about what I'm called. ...except that I have a helper who refers to us as master and apprentice. I suppose I am HIS master, but I'm sure not A master by any stretch of the imagination. I'm ok with it around the shop, but I don't think it's appropriate to use those terms at public demos until I really deserve the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Perhaps you are hanging up on the difference between a blacksmith, a good blacksmith and a great blacksmith. Do you manipulate steel/iron's form using heat to make it soft but not molten? If so you are a blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Reminds me of something one of my teachers back in college said. Motel room art is still art. May not be any good, but it's art. Re-applied, might use this to say one is a blacksmith. Adjectives may be needed to clarify. For example, one might be a great/lousy/still-learning/apprentice/master/hobbiest/godawful/former/artist/sometimes/fulltime blacksmith.......who specializes in toolmaking/sculpture/nails-only/farrier-work/blade-making/gate-making/hooks/screwdriver/ugly-bits-of-twisted-metal/historical-recreation/pointy-stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 There are a handful of members here that will claim that we hobby blacksmiths should *NEVER* be allowed to call ourselves blacksmiths because we will never complete a program and receive papers that confirm such a Title. (Pronounced Apprentice Programs) I can somewhat see their point, as they are making their living solely from heating and beating. That being said, I too used to cringe when people would describe me as *blacksmith*. However, after 13 or 14 years, I'm still learning blacksmithing, but the name doesn't seem so awkward. No, I haven't completed any apprentice programs and I don't do this to put wieners on the table, and I've been a welder/fabricator for most of my adult life but if I want to fix or make something, my first thought is "What end should I heat first, and what hammer and tongs will I need?" My 2¢ Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Do you heat the iron enough that it becomes "black" with scale? Do you smite it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hey I've been smithing for about 33 years now and I'm still learning; I figure the day I stop learning y'all should just drop me in a hole and start kicking dirt over me... As I've mentioned; my great grand father was the smith in a small rural Arkansas hill town. There are things he could do offhand that I will probably never learn to do. OTOH there are things I do on a regular basis that he never learned and I know a lot more about the science and history of the craft than he ever needed to know for his career. Hmm perhaps it's a bit like cooking; when do you call yourself a cook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 I call myself a cook when I can cook something that doesn't make someone throw up! :lol: So..... I can call myself a blacksmith if I make something that isn't so ugly it makes someone puke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horse Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I think many of us (me for sure) are humbled when watching blacksmiths move steel with tremendous efficiency, with each hammer stroke being pretty much the exact stroke they intend. They take a look at a project and the steps to creating the item are clear in their mind for the outset. These folks to me are blacksmiths. I love to "heat steel to become black with scale then smiting it". It makes me uncomfortable to be denoted as a "blacksmith" as I consider myself one who admires the art and when possible light the forge and make things that can be useful and or decorative. I consider myself a person who is engaging in "blacksmithing". One of the questions I think many have asked is at what point is one comfortable being referred to as a "blacksmith". I feel like it may be "never" for myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 This has been discussed in length before somewhere in these threads, but I always tell people who ask if I'm a Blacksmith, that "I blacksmith as a hobby". This allows me to retain the title (Which I do enjoy and am proud of!), while letting them know I that I do other things besides smithing for a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horse Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 +1 for considering myself one that blacksmith's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawnJockey Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I have a long way to go before anyone mistakes me for a blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 The next question is usually "What do you make?" to which I always reply "A lot of smoke, ash and noise mostly!" :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 "Scrap!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyanchor Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 "Scrap!" AH HA... I now know what to call myself: a SCRAPSMITH ! If I drop the first 'S' it pretty much describes some of the things I've made. When I did a lot of wood working, I could take a perfectly good board and do a bang up job of making saw dust and scrap wood. Now I can do the same thing with metal chips and drops. I never claim to be a blacksmith or weldor, I can heat and form metal, and stick mild steel together but I havn't had any formal classes in either skill, someday maybe I'll get schooled in one or the other, but I still don't think I'll claim any title. My 2 bits... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 a mess, I make a mess and I am good at it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Do you work *like* a blacksmith or *as* a blacksmith. Call it what you will, in your heart you know if you ARE a blacksmith. At the same time you most likely underestimate your ability. It is human nature. Because you look at the quite large final project and do not know exactly where to start, does not mean you can not build the project. If, under someones guidance, you make several small easily done items, then assemble them into larger easily done pieces, and finally assemble those pieces into a much larger project, you will impress even your own self. In reality you did all the work, you just needed encouragement and a bit of guidance from someone who has traveled the road before you and knows where the pot holes are located. Once there you also know how to travel the same road. The true blacksmith not only knows his abilities, but knows there is still more to learn. He (or she) seeks out those that have knowledge and experienced and learns, they then expand his abilities. He then passes HIS knowledge and experience on to others wanting to learn. I was fortunate to watch a six (6) year old become interested in blacksmithing. At 9 he was giving demonstrations to others who wanted to learn. I have seen mid-teens start blacksmithing and within 3 to 5 years become blacksmiths that others recognize their work as being at a professional level. I have seen those that start blacksmithing late(ish) in life apply their life experiences to the craft. They study, research, and learn and take the knowledge to the forge. They make wonderful things at an advanced level in the craft. In each case their work shows and is measured be their intensity to want to learn and their hours of hammer time. No one has a complete set of knowledge, as there is always something to learn, no matter what your level in the craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texascherokee Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 This has been discussed in length before somewhere in these threads, but I always tell people who ask if I'm a Blacksmith, that "I blacksmith as a hobby". This allows me to retain the title (Which I do enjoy and am proud of!), while letting them know I that I do other things besides smithing for a living. I completely agree with this statement. Maybe 5 or 10 years down the line I might consider myself a blacksmith, but for now I'll stick with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Blythin Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 When I operate a motor vehicle, I'm a 'driver'. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm a 'professional driver', but I'm still driving. When you smack incandescent steel with a hammer to change its shape, you're a blacksmith. Frankly, if the working professional smiths take issue with the term, that's their hang-up. It's up to them to specify that they're 'professionals'. That said, I suppose those who live and work in one of the few places that still have a formal system in place for regulating the blacksmithing trade, may have a stronger argument for taking issue with non-qualified persons using the term. But in a lot of places (i.e. most of North America), there is no such system in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Geist Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 For someone to be considered a Journeyman Blacksmith I really like the 26 points listed by ABANA that we talked about on the other thread. http://www.abana.org/resources/journeyman/index.shtml Is a good guideline. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yahoo2 Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 This reminds me of "how long does it take to become a local" I think if someone lives in my community for more than 3 weekends, they are a local and I treat them as such. Others think it takes about 3 generations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Unless the media becomes involved. The media claim anyone doing good was from their state even the person moved away as a child, and has rarely if ever returned, or just drove through on the way to somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Blythin Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Question for the professional farriers... How do people in your trade react to being called a blacksmith? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I've been at the craft for many years, so I was curious as to my qualifications regarding Appalachian's Journeyman list. I may be nit picking a little, but here's what I found, by the numbers. Some things show where I'd make changes and some things are listed where I'm lacking. See http://www.abana.org/resources/journeyman/index.shtml 1. Specify a length to the tapered point. 2. "Width" can be nebulous here. "Thickness" is another term that may be used. 13. I am a beginner at soft soldering. Forge brazing can be done as well as torch brazing. 16. I would need to do some homework to know the abrasive grades and classifications. Did you ever hear of "crocus cloth?" 17, I use a printed table to find out drill sizes for tapping. "Case hardening" is nowadays also called "carburizing." Add "normalizing" to the heat treatment list. 19. I have yet to make a hex headed bolt. 22, Twists can also be done on flat stock, textured round stock, or other odd sections. 26. I have yet to make a die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I've been messing with hot steel since I was maybe 11 almost always as a hobby. On occasions I've sold work or done it as part of my paycheck job. I don't blacksmith as a profit making enterprise so I've never really thought of myself as A blacksmith but I blacksmith and have been for 50 years. Some folk think I am a blacksmith, well I guess sometimes I am. When I'm putting on a demonstration I am a blacksmith. There are places where calling yourself a blacksmith without proper certifications is misrepresenting yourself and maybe even a crime. It would be like someone here getting a job operating a semi truck and trailer without the proper CDL endorsements. Pro drivers will take offense and police will show some . . . attention. Good reasons for certs in many cases especially if someone's safety counts on proper work. Were I doing structural iron work I'd present my certifications as a welder fabricator, any blacksmithing I used on such a project would be joined by modern methods I'm certified to perform correctly. I may wonder about a forge weld but I never wondered if my arc weld would hold to spec. So, I guess more to your point. I blacksmith, I don't claim to BE a blacksmith. I'm up front about it, I try to never misrepresent myself or my work. I'll tackle anything I think I can do safely but I always tell folk up front what it really is. That's all, so much is perception, what's our self perception? What do others perceive us as? It only matters in situations where it's important, safety #1, honesty #2, Market value #3? When I'm at the anvil whether I AM a blacksmith or I'm just blacksmithing, hobbyist or pro is so irrelevant it never crosses my mind, I have IMPORTANT things to think about, what I'm doing. O' course that's just my opinion I could be wrong. Wrong or not it doesn't matter I don't care, I'm gonna light a fire. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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