What do you wish you knew before using a Gas Forge?

[01tundra]

Yep, very good point on ventilation.  It can mean the difference between life & death.

 

In the summer I keep all three of my 10'x10' doors open.

 

I  also have a CO monitor mounted about 10' away from my forge, it consistantly stays on "0%".

 

In the winter I open at least the two doors next to the forge.

[ThomasPowers]

I have been known to lower one of the doors 1/2 way if the wind starts blowing anvils over in the shop----but I keep the downwind door open and of course the gables and roof ridge vent.

 

(not much of a joke as we do get a lot of high winds, (defined as anything over 50 mph) through here at times and *not* correlated with storms save for dust storms...

[SpankySmith]

I'll be working exclusively outdoors, under a big ol proverbial Southern pecan tree, so ventilation shouldn't be an issue. My gas forge arrived yesterday, should get to fire it up Saturday. Will try not to blow up myself or the neighborhood!

[Frosty]

I'll be working exclusively outdoors, under a big ol proverbial Southern pecan tree, so ventilation shouldn't be an issue. My gas forge arrived yesterday, should get to fire it up Saturday. Will try not to blow up myself or the neighborhood!

 

Sounds good, we'll let the neighborhood know, they were beginning to fret. <snicker>

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[SpankySmith]

BTW, Tundra I really like that stand!  Nicely thought out with the front prop and the side for tools.   nice

[mt2020]

I tried to find Wilder forge and I find a guy in Texas that makes nice looking knifes but know forges can you piont me in the right direc5

[SpankySmith]

Wilder sells his stuff via ebay - just search for single burner or double burner forges on ebay, you'll find 'em there.  

[SpankySmith]

Hey all, my new forge came with a regulator but not a psi gauge and I believe I want one, can anyone recommend a good but NOT expensive one? And before I get lectured on that, Geeze!! I've spent all my "disposable income" on shop and supplies, gimme a break...

[01tundra]

BTW, Tundra I really like that stand!  Nicely thought out with the front prop and the side for tools.   nice

 

Thanks.

 

One unintended benefit that I've really enjoyed is that since the entire forge table is mounted on the screw jack I can easily swivel the forge to any angle in as much time it takes to reach up and grab the table.  It comes in real handy being able to swivel the forge.

[Frosty]

Spanky: Get one from the local propane supply, being propane rated is more important than real accuracy. There are too many variables that alter what psi the psig number actually is to mess with.

 

All the gauge on a forge really does is let you adjust temperature repeatably. What my gauge reads means absolutely nothing on anybody else's burner, not a thing. For instance, my burners operating range tends to be in the 8-25psig range. However if I hook one to someone else's reg it's different and I have to do my initial adjustment by ear.

 

PSI absolute has a pretty limited use, say filling high pressure tanks where a couple % could have a catastrophic effect. PSIG is gauge pressure and it's determined by the differential between atmosphere and the gauge. This differential is what virtually all common gas operated devices operate under, be it my cutting torch, impact wrench, tire gauge, kitchen range, etc.

 

Don't sweat buying an expensive "accurate" gauge, just get a good one at the propane supply, it'll do just what you really need, it'll let you adjust your forge temp quickly and accurately. IIRC I paid around $9.00 for the one I'm using maybe 20 years ago.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

EXPECTO CURMUDGEON!

 

Why?  Learning to tune your forge by eye and by ear will let you use any propane forge  properly even your own when the gauge gets dinged and is giving you a false reading.

 

There is no "magic number" and folks arguing about what they run at is pretty much like folks arguing about their mpg on their trucks with the added caveat that their odometer may be as much as 50% off!  Last Wednesday I adjusted the regulator several times depending on what we were forging and how many people had steel in the forge at the same time and how wide the front door was ajar to get it all in and out.  Never looked at a gauge; kept an eye on the colour temp of the inside of the forge; how much of the firebrick was screaming hot, how hot the steel was getting and how long it took to get there.

 

Since you are tool poor at the moment why waste money on something you don't really need?

[SpankySmith]

I didn't originally intend to mess with a gauge at all after reading posts here, but I found myself tweaking the flow on mine a good bit over the course of 4 hours and honestly had no CLUE what I was looking for!   So I thought a gauge might help.  To my VERY untrained eye, all the difference I could see was when it was too high the steel heated REALLY fast (I was working with 1/4" stock) and when it was too low it took a good bit longer to heat up.    Felt like I was floundering, just guessing at what was right... or not. 

[Frosty]

Normal learning curve Spanky, just keep tweaking till you get it right and remember how it sounds and what color it is. You WILL be changing the regulator depending on stock size.

 

Thinking about it though, maybe we should start calling beginners "Flounders" or would that be too fishy even for us?

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[SpankySmith]

I like Flounders! I'm gonna steal that!

[Laertius]

I built my forge from plans online and reading posts on here.  Here are my lessons learned:

1)  Bigger is not better, I built a 2 burner forge  out of an old 20lb propane bottle that could melt a 3inch bar if I let it,  -- way overkill. The only time I've needed to use the whole thing was to heat treat a machete -- and I could have done that some other way. 

2)  follow proven  burner plans to the tee unless you are an engineer or Frosty

3) read and absorb all of frosty's posts: He knows his !@#$.

4)  invest in a good CO/ LP detector:  mine was 30can$ and reads parts per million on a LCD screen, move it around high low, etc, to learn how much ventilation is required.  For my 20x30 shop, to ensure a 0 reading on the meter I need my man door open half way and the big door open about 2' --- creates a good cross draft.  Now that it is warmer, I just open both up all the way.  CO poisoning is no joke, and should be a number one priority.

 

5) don't use hard fire brick for he floor of your forge -- it takes WAY TOO long to heat up, and wastes a lot of gas:  I will use ceramic kiln shelf when I have to re-line the forge.

6)  Furnace cement works as a liner (applied as a coat over the kaowool, but is not great,  has 0 IR reflection,  but does a decent job of protecting the wool.  Just be sure to wet the wool before you apply any liner -- not wet -- it'll just fall off the first burn (ask me how I know lol)

 

Anyways - that is all for now,  I like my forge, but still use my charcoal / coal forge for an EQUAL amount of projects, and beleive they both serve a purpose.  

 

I will re-iterate one point:  don't try an re-invent the wheel until you have built a few burners based on proved plans -- I used and ejector style, it worked right -- just follow the plans :)

[Macsen]

I added an "enonomizer"  from the tank I have a regulator, a 1/4 turn ball valve (#1) , then a tee.  one leg of  the tee has a needle valve set for lighting and "idle" the other leg has a 1/4 turn ball valve (#2).  both legs tie back together and feed into the burner manifold.

 

This lets me open the first ball valve (#1)and light the burner without too much FUN. The the other ball valve (#2) is then opened to heat the stock.  Just before I pull it out, I close the #2 ball valve, and the forge goes to "idle" using less fuel and making it easier to manipulate the stock in and out of the forge.  The idle does a pretty good job of keeping the forge hot, saves fuel and reduces freeze up of the tank.

[Jacob Nothstine]

Get an extra tank, learned that last weekend. wife "should we grill the hamburgers?", "no let's cook them inside the grill is out of gas"  :(

[ThomasPowers]

Blacksmith truism:  You need N+1 propane tanks when you own N

[Macsen]

40# or larger with a 20# backup

[VaughnT]

I added an "enonomizer"  from the tank I have a regulator, a 1/4 turn ball valve (#1) , then a tee.  one leg of  the tee has a needle valve set for lighting and "idle" the other leg has a 1/4 turn ball valve (#2).  both legs tie back together and feed into the burner manifold.

 

This lets me open the first ball valve (#1)and light the burner without too much FUN. The the other ball valve (#2) is then opened to heat the stock.  Just before I pull it out, I close the #2 ball valve, and the forge goes to "idle" using less fuel and making it easier to manipulate the stock in and out of the forge.  The idle does a pretty good job of keeping the forge hot, saves fuel and reduces freeze up of the tank.

You need to diagram that.  I absolutely hate my propane forge for just that reason!  I can't imagine how much propane I'm burning while I'm at the anvil hammering hot steel.  The only option I have it to keep multiple pieces in the heat so I can be constantly pounding on fresh stock, but that's tiresome and sometimes not possible.

[Michael]

Yes, second on wanting to see that idler valve you set up!  I'd like to hard pipe (is that the right term?) my propane forge so the rubber hose is out of the way, and an idler circuit would sure save on the propane.  Currently getting about 4+ hours to a 20 lb tank.

[Dodge]

I built my forge from plans online and reading posts on here.  Here are my lessons learned:

1)  Bigger is not better, I built a 2 burner forge  out of an old 20lb propane bottle that could melt a 3inch bar if I let it,  -- way overkill. The only time I've needed to use the whole thing was to heat treat a machete -- and I could have done that some other way. 

2)  follow proven  burner plans to the tee unless you are an engineer or Frosty

3) read and absorb all of frosty's posts: He knows his !@#$.

4)  invest in a good CO/ LP detector:  mine was 30can$ and reads parts per million on a LCD screen, move it around high low, etc, to learn how much ventilation is required.  For my 20x30 shop, to ensure a 0 reading on the meter I need my man door open half way and the big door open about 2' --- creates a good cross draft.  Now that it is warmer, I just open both up all the way.  CO poisoning is no joke, and should be a number one priority.

 

5) don't use hard fire brick for he floor of your forge -- it takes WAY TOO long to heat up, and wastes a lot of gas:  I will use ceramic kiln shelf when I have to re-line the forge.

6)  Furnace cement works as a liner (applied as a coat over the kaowool, but is not great,  has 0 IR reflection,  but does a decent job of protecting the wool.  Just be sure to wet the wool before you apply any liner -- not wet -- it'll just fall off the first burn (ask me how I know lol)

 

Anyways - that is all for now,  I like my forge, but still use my charcoal / coal forge for an EQUAL amount of projects, and beleive they both serve a purpose.  

 

I will re-iterate one point:  don't try an re-invent the wheel until you have built a few burners based on proved plans -- I used and ejector style, it worked right -- just follow the plans :)

 

Well said, Laertius; well said! Proven design save lots of hours and headaches. Benefit from other's R&D :)

Another wool coating that I have had good luck with on the lines of furnace cement is refractory mortar. (I used AP Green's "Greenpatch 421" but not sure about it's availability, however I'm certain there are others) It's primary function is for mortaring fire brick together but it coats dampened ceramic wool nicely. A couple coats of it thinned to milkshake consistency yields a very hard coat that you would have to hit square on to breach. 

 

Scott

[SpankySmith]

Yes, second on wanting to see that idler valve you set up!  I'd like to hard pipe (is that the right term?) my propane forge so the rubber hose is out of the way, and an idler circuit would sure save on the propane.  Currently getting about 4+ hours to a 20 lb tank.

Is that the norm? I got about 12 hours on my first 20 lb tank, but of course I was tweaking it a good deal, trying to get it just right. I was happy with 12, but 4? ??

[ThomasPowers]

Like gas mileage for cars---depends on the car and on what you are doing with it.

 

I currently am running two different propane forges and one eats about twice as much propane as the other---it also has about twice the internal space...

[Chinobi]

the old single burner NC Forge Whisper baby's that the school used to run would get about 8-10 hours, 1.5 to 2 classes worth, on a 20 lb tank.  the new twin burner chili habaneros....not so much :) had to upgrade them all to 40's and we still run into problems sometimes with them freezing up.

 

but I gotta agree with spanky, 4 hours seems MIGHTY low.  of course your setup will be different from anybody elses, and I am also assuming that you are referencing a single burner.