Anvil and Forge question for newbie smith....

[newbiesmith]

I just recently got bit with the desire to start smithing. I wanted to start out cheap so that I could see if it is something that I wanted to do long term. So I've been reading and trolling the internet looking for information.

Today when I was out and about I happened upon an old flea market and there I found about a two foot long piece of 'I' Beam and an older push mower deck. I bought both for $10.

My plan for the 'I' Beam is to turn it into a makeshift Anvil if possible. If not I'm sure I'll find some use for it down the road. Does anyone here know of any good references for using an 'I' Beam as an anvil? I've seen a ton of documentation for old rail road rails, but haven't stumbled upon anything for an 'I' Beam yet.

The old mower deck will end up being a component in my first cook book coal forge. I am thinking of inverting it and (if I can snag one from the dump) mounting it on an old gas grill stand. I am thinking I may need to have something heavier for where the fire pot will be but have also seen designs for brake drum forges and will probably make a hybrid of that. Likewise with above if anyone has any recommendations I'd appreciate them.

That's pretty much the nuts and bolts of my question. I'm looking to start out cheap and hopefully sponge up as much information about the trade in the process. I've just found this site and am looking forward to reading your posts on the forums and learning from all of you.

-Dan

[Dale Russell]

G'Day newbiesmith,
first of all " G'Day " & welcome to the site .
Now the " nut's & bolts " . I beam , it'll do in a pinch , but 2 things , first , the I beam don't have much mass to be use as an anvil , second , that sucker will ring that loud each time you pound on it the bloke 5 doors down i'll wanna ring your neck after 10 minutes .

Hang onta it , it may come in handy for something else . Check out the IForgeIron Blueprints here , also take a look at the demos at Anvilfire, theres 1 for RR ( Rail Road ) anvils , better , but .... I take it your from America ( Australia here ) Some of your fellow country men have found the anvil that HF sell is better then RR line ( & I beam from that matter ) & is at a reasonable price for a newbie ( check out Quenchcrack's coments on the HF / Russian anvils while your at Anvilfire

What sort of stuff you intrested in making ? ( please not swords .... )

Look up your local blacksmithing group , go see them , maybe join up . The blokes ( & shelias ) on here can point you in the right direction to where 1 will be near you ( they'll need to know " where " in the USA you are )

As for a forge ,solid fuel ( coal /coke /charcoal ) ? Check out the gallery here , ( also do a search in the forums on forges )

And last of all ... ave fun

Dale Russell

[ralphy]

Welcome, Newbiesmith!
I have hammered alot of sheetmetal on a I beam, but find an anvil,You will tell the differance.
I started the same way, If I didn't like it , I was not alot of money. I made my own anvil from 1,1/2" & 2" plate steel, it weighs around 100lbs.
My forge, home made as well, 14" & 12" pipe make the inner and outer walls with sand as insulater, three 1,1/2" pipe legs, 2" pipe "t"d togather with a $10 pawn shop blower.
All the parts were scrap metal from a fabshop I used to work at.
"HF" Dale speaks of is I believe Harbor Freight, You can get a anvil around $100,
or a litter cheaper, don't have a store near you? Go online ( harborfreight.com )
Check out the "Blue prints"! Alot of great stuff there!
Again, welcome to the site good luck, good scrounging,& good smithing! ;)

[newbiesmith]

Thank you gents for all your help and wisdom. As far as Dale's question for what am I looking to do..... Well to be honest with you the thought of making a sword is a project that I have in mind. However it is a project for way down the road. I'd like to eventually be able to craft a family sword that would be worthy enough to pass down from generation to generation. That being said it is not the only reason I am looking to get into smithing. I've always been drawn to the blacksmith forges at local festivals. The fire, the smell of coal smoke and the glow of a heated metal has always been beckoning. So I'm not looking to start with a grandious project. I'd be simply tickled to follow the guide on how to make my first set of tongs and then use those on other projects as I learn the trade. The self sufficiency and recycling nature of the trade is another big lure.

Forgive me if I ramble for we have just finished entertaining guests, it is late and I've had one too many beers. But thanks guys for welcoming me in with open arms and hopefully I'll be able to contribute to the community one day down the road.

-Dan

[Dale Russell]

Dan , LOL , sorry i couldn't help meself with the jib about the sword ( not that theres anything wrong with makin' swords )

Good ta hear youse is wantin' ta learn ow ta smith first ( gotta crawl before youse can walk )

" I've always been drawn to the blacksmith forges at local festivals. The fire, the smell of coal smoke and the glow of a heated metal has always been beckoning. "

Nature of the beast mate , us blokes is drawn ta it ( Fire / Hit things )

Tongs , i'm sure Ntech ( aka ) Glenn ( Site Admin ) would throw up some BP

[mcraigl]

Newbiesmith, where do you hail from? Like mentioned above, there's probably a guild or club somewhere near you that will make the learning and acquisition parts easier on you.

[newbiesmith]

Well I'm living in northeastern West Virginia. So as far as coal goes there's lots but I haven't hooked up much with smiths in the area.

New news.... I did find a pretty interesting block of steel/iron at the local salvage yard. It doesn't have a "tinny" ring to it so I'm thinking thats a good thing. Now the interesting part. How to carve out some feet for it so I can mount it on a block. The thing is heavy as xxxx so removing a little of the weight would be nice. Below are two pics of the block and the last one is after about an hour with a cutoff wheel. Thats when I knew I should post for ideas/recommendations on what best to do without a cutting torch.

Thanks guys.

-Dan

[mike-hr]

Build an angle iron surround, screwed to the stump for the base, I don't think it will jump out. Move the stump and block around with a hand truck.

[fat pete]

I wouldnt try and cut that block. You could end up using all sizes of anvils for all kinds of stuff. should have drove over to Dayton this past weekend you woulda found all you need. You really should find a smith in your area and let him tell ya whats up. Thats how I got started and from what I hear so did almost everyone else....The Carolinas are real active folks and Virginia so you can find tutledge noo problem. I just bought a saw from a guy in Beckley.

fp

[keykeeper]

First off, let me say Welcome to IFI from another Mountaineer.

Ok, that said, here's what you do:

Read, Read, Read. Period. This website is full of good information for beginners. From finding the tools, making the tools, using the tools, or selling the tools, it can be done or found on here. Read all the blueprints you can on here, very helpful info there.

Hook up with a local association or guild. Blacksmiths Guild of Virginia may be close for you or Appalachian Blacksmith's Association here in WV. Do a search on google for them. There are some fine, helpful folks in these organizations that can help you find or even loan you tools until you do find or make them.

Come on down/over to Ripley for the ABA fall conference (check the calender on their website for date). Always someone tailgating there with anvils, tools, forges, etc. (I live local, so I'm there already!) Bring that block, someone may trade you something for it. Personally, if its steel, would make a decent starter anvil IMHO.

OK, I'll shut up now.

aaron c.

[newbiesmith]

Thanks a ton and I mean a ton. I've gotten one of the books recommended on line "The Art of Blacksmithing" and am awaiting it's arrival. In the mean time I've been reading, piddling and gathering.

Not having access to a welder I didn't know if I had an option to attach angle irons to it. I'm truely a newbie as far as metal goes and had overlooked the possibility of bolting a piece of angle iron to it. I'll give it a once over again tomorrow after I've slept on it. Thanks a ton.

I guess the only other thing would be to resurface this beast which I'm assuming would best be done with file and elbow grease. Once again if there's a better let me know.

There's a festival coming up that my wife and I always go to in Pennsylvania so it may yield an "actual" anvil. But in the mean time I'm learning so I don't mind screwing around with a block of steel.

I've at least learned a couple things today: that is I have so underestimated the weight of steel, and it's hardness.

Thanks again guys and good talkin to ya.

-Dan

[Glenn]

Nothing wrong with getting a couple pieces of angle iron and using long bolts to clamp them to the side of the steel. Use the flats to hold the angle iron to a stump or whatever. All you will need is a hacksaw and a drill.

Before you go too far in making that piece of steel into something else, learn how to use it as an anvil. Beat on it a while. Chances are you may like it just the way it is. And if I count right, you can turn it to have 5 different faces to work on.

[fat pete]

Where and what, when is the festival?

[fat pete]

You know if you want to cleen it up ..I learned a little trick is to put a bucket in a bucket and fill it with vineger.
I used a drywall bucket and took a plastic plant pot, the plant pot has holes in it so the vineger drains and you lift the cleaned piece out, made a handle out of hanger ...then you put what ever you wanna clean up in the inner bucket and let it sit a couple of days...cheap and it works.

FP

[jayco]

First of all....welcome to I F I Newbiesmith!

I started out smithing on a more or less square block of of iron.

You can do a lot of work on a block of iron if you set your mind to it.

In fact, I used this as my anvil for almost 5 years, I think.

I got an old London Pattern anvil.....a Peter Wright.

The funny thing is....I still use the iron block quite a bit!

James

[Frosty]

An easy way to securely mount your block is mortice it into a block of green wood. When the block dries it'll shrink and hold your anvil solidly. This is how I mounted my 125lb Sodorfors and it's remained rock solid for a good 18 years.

Frosty

[newbiesmith]

Man I'll have to try all that you guys recommended. The viniger solution sounds interesting. I wouldn't have thought about that.

My next question is, for the actual striking surface will that need to be completely smooth and flat? There are some bumps, divets, etc. on all sides. Should I smooth, out the face or should I just beat around with it the way it is. If I need to do this how best should it be done. Since it is more than just surface rust would the viniger solution still work?

No doubt after I get this block laid out the way I want it I'll find an honest to goodness anvil. But like I said earlier I've been learning a ton just working with junk, and this is something I've never put much worth in, in the past. But every little bit helps from what people have told me.

The festival is located in Springs Pennsylvania. The site for the festival and organization is Springs Historical Society and if I remember correctly there is a smith or two present with their wares. One I believe is a knife smith. As far as market items, with me not knowing what to look for before, everything seemed like rusted junk tools and devices that I had no idea what their purpose was. But it's a fun festival and if you go there, just go down to the food stand at the bottom of the hill and get yourself a half dozen of their home made doughnuts and then some apple cider from another vendor. Dress in layers cuz I've never been there when the weather was 100% pleasant all day. I'll stop now because I'm starting to get a little homesick ;-).

Take care and I hope to see you there.

-Dan


P.S. As with everything it's "feast or famine". This is another festival right up the road from us that has a huge flea market which I remember had smithing tools Burlington United Methodist Family Services, Inc. . But the springs festival is a family tradition.

[ThomasPowers]

If you just gotta screw it down to a stump, weld a piece of angle iron to the sides with a hole for a screw, (check for carbon content first!)

No access to a welder: You could drill and angled hole near the base to use a lag bolt on---if you have a decent sized drill!

Cutting metal off an anvil is like cutting gold off a gold bar and throwing it away cause the bar's too heavy...

If it's steel it looks like a dandy anvil and you may want to clean up several sides for different uses. For my Y1K block anvil I have one side for general smithing, ones side for chiseling and one side for blades---that new folks are not allowed to hammer on until they demonstrate their hammer control!

[Dutchmancreek]

Newbiesmith...where are you in Northeastern W.V? We go through there several times a year. We have a cabin in Somerset County Pa. and have considered moving to Fairmont West Virginia.

Steve

[Frosty]

Another way to attach it to a stump would be to drill and tap four holes 1/2" min. around what you decide will be the base. Then simply screw in eye bolts and then run lag screws down through the eyes into the wood block.

Frosty

[ThomasPowers]

To clean it up I'd choose the "best face" and wire brush it with an angle grinder---wear PPE esp a faceshield! then use sanding disks with the grinder to flatten and true up the surface. It doesn't need to be dead flat or mirror polished to work as a good anvil though you may want to dress one small section fairly nicely for delicate work.

[newbiesmith]

Woot finally completed my first forge.

Here's the details.

Brake Drum firepot - Free
Old scrap mower deck - $3
Old Dell PowerEdge 2500 Tower Case scrap from work (for frame stand)- Free
SCSI Hard Drive tray from scrapped server for fire grate - Free
Scrap Pipe from scrapyard (purchased with a ton of other junk for $5)

Showing up to work the day after tomorrow with no eyebrows. Priceless...

On a serious note I should be fireing this up tomorrow just to see if I can get it hot enough to hit red (or hotter, depending on how the first part goes). Should I be concerned that I used bolts on this since I didn't have access to a welder?

Also any other recommendations for a guy about to "become a blacksmithing" so to speak?

Thanks for the help and the advice. I'm looking forward to tomorrow night.

-Dan

[Frosty]

I love it Dan!

Kind of reminds me of my first "real" forge. I used a brake drum and the door from a washing machine propped on cinder blocks, some plumbing for the tuyere and an old hair dryer for the blower. It was one of the old style hair driers with a separate heater blower unit and plastic hood with a hose connecting them, it was a natural.

You're going to do fine Dan, just fine.

Two suggestions:

First if you have a metal saw make a hole in the mower deck large enough the drum rests on the rim near the top.

Second, you'll need something heavier for the air grate. Even being SS isn't going to keep the one you have in action long.

Everything else looks just dandy. Hang onto a few drive magnets, one of two to help kill the ring of your anvil and others for: judging critical temp in tool steel, pickup tools, tool holders, etc., etc. magnets are good.

Frosty

[keykeeper]

Newbiesmith:

Very good start you have. As Frosty said, drop the drum into the deck. It will make tending your fire much easier, allowing new fuel to be easily raked into the firepot when needed. Also, try to rig some sort of ash dump as part of the air supply. Without one, the ash that falls through will eventually clog up your air flow, and cause all sorts of problems for you. Do a search of the site here, and look at the pics of different tuyere configurations some of the folks here have come up with, for ideas.

Forge on Brother!

aaron c.

[Candidquality]

I didn't see anywhere that you fire grate was stainless. If you are unsure you might want to soak it overnight in vinegar to get any coatings off of it. I've seen galvanized and that gold looking coating(name escapes me currently) on the metal in computer boxes and would hate for even that much to get into your lungs. if it is stainless, then no worries.
bolts work well if they are stainless, others will melt pretty quickly(watch for coatings on these as well). Probably being over cautious. that said:
Looks great. Nice to see you after it so quickly. One bit of advice it to try something new every chance you get so you can see what you can come up with. I spend some of each day trying to re-invent the wheel. Just because I have the time to. Keeps things from getting dull.