Crazy Ivan Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 So winter is coming and last year I decide to make a 5' tall igloo (on the inside). We had a good storm in boston last year so i decided to make the white stuff a bit more entertaining. I had built ventilation for it so i could make a fire inside of it for added warmth. It got to a very cozy 65 degrees inside with very minimal smoke after the fire got stable (very smokey beforehand). I slept in it for a few nights with low temps outside fluctuating between 0-8 degrees F but the inside nice and cozy. Anyways, i was thinking about doing it again this year, but figured i would drag my anvil in there and start a charcoal fire inside and do some forging (I know, I know). Seeing as i was able to get the temp stable around 60-70 degrees inside I don't see any imminent danger to my tools due to cold. Has anyone heard of some nut besides myself attempting this? I think it would be entertaining an I know at least i would get a chuckle out of it. Thoughts? Haha, they don't call me Crazy Ivan for nothing! :) -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 very cool. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 How do you maintain the snow that forms the igloo with the temps at 65*F? If it an open fire or a fire in some type of stove? How thick did you make the igloo and did you have to add material to the outside once it was built to maintain the thickness? I would think a small forge with a chimney could be made to work. It would need outside air to replace the air sent up the chimney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Glenn, what i have got in the habit of doing is to form the Igloo with approx 8"-1' walls and cut a small hole for a pipe to go through from the outside to the base of my fire. It catches the wind via (not sure of the exact term) a "sail" or "wind-catching" method of coning a tarp to the pipe to catch the breeze. The cone shape creates a vortex effect and delivers a good stream of air on a breezy day. As for maintaining the inside of the igloo, I start the initial fire, then once the inside gets warm for a bit, snuff it and let the inside get back to freezing. This creates a solid sheet of ice on the inside which helps a lot with supporting the walls.I have not had to add snow to the outside in previous ones as the sheet of ice tends to hold up very well. I live in massachusetts and anyone from new england will tell you, the weather is quite unpredictable and changes quickly. Last year after the igloo was about five days old (still looking solid too) there was three days of above freezing temps and rain. The igloo survived with only about 6" of sag on the roof. As for a chimney or vent, the half-round shape of the igloo makes the heat rise to the center top pretty well so i have just punched out a small section of the very top and along with a few small side vents, the smoke "runs" straight up and out. Snow is an excellent insulator so the vents don't seem to sap too much heat from the inside. The first one i made was an open fire, but found that to be too smokey because it was sucking moisture from the frozen ground. Now i put down a makeshift fire pot to help the fire burn better and create less smoke. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Charcoal in an enclosed space is a recipe for death! Proper ventilation is a recipe for frostbite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 I can understand the concern there, but whereas I have made fires in an igloo before, I can say fairly confidently that it stays almost entirely smoke free once the fire has stabilized. Please don't take that as arrogance though, if I am missing something specifically about charcoal as opposed to a regular wood fire, please let me know before i accidentally kill myself! -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 CO is not the same as smoke. Carbon Monoxide is colorless, flavorless, and deadly. Get a CO monitor to put inside the igloo with you when you decide to do this, and make sure to have some sort of pipe to let in the fresh air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Good call on that! Thanks. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 For every cubic foot of smoke and exhaust the fire generates, you need at least a cubic foot of fresh air to replace it. Any flame will generate CO2 and with less than enough oxygen to fully burn it will generate CO or carbon monoxide. Nasty stuff. Think about using a closed system stove where you pipe in outside air to the box, then have a chimney to pipe the smoke and exhaust out of the area, room etc. Even then it would be a good idea to have a CO detector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Igloos don't melt away like a piece of ice set next to a fire because of the effect the large thickness of ice has. It keeps the surface fairly stable. And snow makes for a good insulator too. The innuit kept fires in their igloos fairly often I do believe, without having to add snow to the outside. I'm sure Frosty and some of the others on here from the Great White North could provide much more informative info though, as I am only going from trivia and knowledge learned from books and Nat. Geographic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 oil lamps rather than "fires" as wood was at a premium way up there as I recall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 The inner layer will slightly melt and then it refreezes to seal and strengthen the dome. The key factor in keeping warm is that even when temps outside are well below 0 when you expose the earth and then insulate the area above it with the igloo it will warm up to around 20 degrees above zero without any heat source.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Very glad to hear some input from an alaskan smith! Thank you for your time! -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Let us not confuse the comforting factor of an igloo as a place to get out of the even colder outside air with using a forge inside an igloo...forge makes it a death chamber. It does not matter wot kind of forge you use if it burns it needs fresh air in ,,as mentioned, the same volume as is exhausted. In Arizona everyf ew years we have poeple die of CO poisoning as a result of using charcoal, LPG or natural gas in a confined space without proper ventilation. We see few igloos in the desert parts where I live. But I have seen deaths in places we all live in and are safe in when poeple change the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted T Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Rich has the credentials to accurately say what he has said. I would pay attention to his comments. Wisdom will tell you that when someone does something that is done near the edge of the cliff, many fall over. What a surpise! Life can be very fragial, why take the chance? I would stay with proven methods of safe operating habits. Younger; or inexperenced people who may read this thread who may think it is OK to take a chance. I have also seen the results of bad judgement many, many times. Please be safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 I will surely be heeding the advise given here, but as a final question, does anybody think if i were to keep a carbon monoxide detector in the igloo while working that it would be more likely i would be staying safe? That seems to be the #1 concern i have heard on here. I know its better then nothing but I still agree that it could be dangerous either way. This is not something that i have to do obviously, more something that i would get a kick out of then anything. I sincerely appreciate all the input i have gotten thus far. This is an excellent forum and I'm sure it has kept people safe as well as improved the skills and knowledge of many smiths out there greatly. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Before you go out in cold weather and outside to forge, take your boots off, but your feet next to the fire, and reconsider the action for at least 2 cups of hot chocolate or other hot beverage, and wait until the urge passes. Rich and Ted just put the period at the end of the discussion. Safety first period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 First rule of being safe is to avoid danger, When we can not, then at least reduce its potential for damage if its is something we have to do. Like when wearing a flack jacket, we still take cover when the shooting starts, even if we have a vest. Your snow casket is like not ducking when you have the option. So first way to avoid being killed by CO or CO2 is to avoid those areas it can build up. If we can not avoid them, we get air moving enough to reduce the danger factor. and in case we fail have the monitor to alert us. So I assume you either live in the snow and have no home to live in and this Igloo is your only place to live and work, or you want to risk your life. Otherwise you would use a safe place to forge. A monitor is only a back up. Never trust your life to electronics alone. They are there as a back up, safe pratice is always first line of defense in anything. What if your monitor is not working property at the time you need it ? We have enough things in life trying to kil us, why add to the list intentionally ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I wholeheartedly agree with those who said it's dangerous (most probably too dangerous). My comment earlier was solely addressing the idea as to whether snow has to be added to the outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Okay, well seeing all these legitimate concerns here, I will not be doing this. It was just a thought, but clearly a bad one so thank you all for your input, concern, and wisdom. Even though i still think it would be cool, its clearly too much of a risk. At least i will live to forge another day haha! -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Now that you have seen the light, try making an Igloo as a deer blind, THAT will work. I did it in Michigan when I lived there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 The only fires the polar native makes in an ice house is an oil lamp. Igloo isn't a native word but I don't recall the origin. almost any earthly temp on one side 1' of snow and the other side will be 27f within less than 2 degrees. Snow caves are a tried and true winter camp/survival shelter. It's hard to beat sleeping in a snow cave, a little visquene to keep your sleeping bag dry and a proper domed roof so you don't get dripped on and it's bug snug in any weather. A CO monitor would be iffy as snow walls aren't air tight so you may have a little fresh air entering at the monitor and not get a warning. I'm only rehashing the dangers and it looks like Crazy Ivan has decided an ice house isn't a good place for a forge. Good to see Crazy doesn't mean dumb. Then again if you're using an induction forge why the heck not? All you'd have to worry about is the humidity in the air and the rust. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 and electrocution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 bet you would have no trouble forging herehttp://goscandinavia.about.com/od/scandinaviahotels/ss/icehotels_9.htm You could get a co2 meter or just bring a Canarie with you for the day if it dies get out Its Carbon Monoxide(CO) that kills you Carbon Dioxide (CO2) just displaces air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I see Co2 and CO confused on this site alot,,,I think we be really carful not to do that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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