Hi,

  So i was wondering about working with a striker. I normally work by myself and keep my shop as a sort of zen type place for me to be alone and find solitude (I am very introverted). This meaning i have little to no experience working with a striker. They would be friends with little experience swinging a hammer most likely. I am looking for any tips on guidance for me to convey to them both for safety and minimal destruction of my equipment. I have been apprehensive to do this due to my general weariness of risking a damaging blow to my precious anvil (it is a 126 LB anvil not sure of the make marked in cwt, not an aso and not cast at least) due to their inexperience. I would most likely have them swinging between 4-8 lb hammers so nothing too brutal on my anvil but still pushing it if the 8 pounder was used. This would be for nothing specific but most likely felling axes and damascus billets (i don't have a press or power hammer so its old school all the way). Things like "should i make a striking anvil?" I am also curious about. Any help is appreciated, thanks! (also, i realize i could do these things on my own, but it would take much much longer)

 

-Crazy Ivan

Handled struck tools. So you use the unskilled labor as a powerhammer. Less likely to strike your anvil.

 I don't know why i didn't think of that haha! Thank you.

-Crazy Ivan

Not my idea, I think it was Thommas that turned me on to it.

I've always thought about letting them learn by helping me split wood. I'll hold the splitting maul or wedge with a handle and they can hit it with the 8 lb hammer. When they misstrike it won't matter. After about an hour or so I bet their aim improves.

 

Good way to build up a stock pile of wood for the wood stove as well.

DSW, you must have kids, sounds like the sadistic things I used to do to my kids. Broke two daughters of back talking, mostly...

DSW, great idea and my wood pile was starting to look a little on the smaller side... haha

Striking anvil is a sound investment.  I was breaking in a new striker Wednesday night---used my anvil with the broken heel.  *MUCH* less worry on both our parts!

 

Go over your commands before starting things like "Hold, turn, Me, Cold, Center, push, pull, etc.

 

Also go over how things generally progress: "I'll pull the hot metal out and place it on the anvil and "set it" with a couple of blows of my hammer and then say "start" and we will alternate till I say "Me or cold"

 

For things like drawing out I'll tell the striker to hit the same spot on the anvil and I will move the piece back and forth

i would not ask anyone with ilttle forging experience to strike for me...Get them some anvil time so they know wot it is you are doing and maybe can see wot it is you wish.

If you can not do that then do a couple of run throughs with cold material and work out the moves.

That is where my hesitation comes from. Unfortunately i don't know any local smiths to come by and spend a day of shared work. There may be hope though as i am new to this forum and it seems like i may be able to find a local network here! I greatly appreciate all your input. 

start with a project that's not very exacting....besides which it's fun to see the fellows 30 years younger than you watch you casually strike one handed with a short handled sledge the same weight as the two hander they are using---and getting more work out of it too!

start with a project that's not very exacting....besides which it's fun to see the fellows 30 years younger than you watch you casually strike one handed with a short handled sledge the same weight as the two hander they are using---and getting more work out of it too!

 

One day Thomas...one day. haha

The blacksmithing school I attend held a team striking class a few months ago and for a primer we practiced beating the daylights out of some scrap lumber and using top tools against lumber. I second going over your commands/language beforehand too. It's really frustrating if you are not on the same page as your striker or master and can lead to injury if your striker has to check a blow mid swing.

For teaching smiths around Boston Carl West springs to mind, IIRC he has a teaching shop and or a co-operative shop.  http://www.prospecthillforge.com  

He is a really fun guy to work with.  Boston is also New England Blacksmiths territory.    http://www.newenglandblacksmiths.org     We have twice per year meets around N.E. and have a teaching shop in Brentwood, NH about an hour north of Boston. 

 

 

I agree on communicating beforehand. Telling them what you want to accomplish while the metal is heating can reinforce stuff you've already gone over too. I've had people with no experience strike for me and some more experienced. We have several hammers for striking, the new people always seem to choose the smallest available. 

My girlfriend and I made this little hammer. This was her first time doing anything like this.

There is a caste of travelling blacksmiths in India whose wives (plural) are their strikers.  I used to have a picture of one, the fellow sitting on his haunches holding the piece while his wives were doing the heavy work.

 

My wife never appreciated it like I did...

Welcome to a new world.
I have used one son-n-law to help strike in a somewhat confined area, without experience of any type. He is a big guy and we use big hammers (12-16) for striking. Inexperienced folk can be rewarding once they get their eyes calibrated with their hands(statement made by Lyle Wynn). And those of us with experience still must calibrate our swing with our vision.

If you can build a striking anvil you will appreciate it even more when you do not use one. WHY? Because a striking anvil is much lower to the ground...allowing room for the bottom tools PLUS the work item PLUS the top tool...to match the apex of the swinging sledge. This become so very evident by attempting to do the same project at a working anvil's height. That would place the sledge quite a bit higher and a whole lot less comfortable.

Striking anvil may max out at 24 inch high and a little lower is acceptable.

Communication is required. The striker must learn the proper nod or signal to release the swing. That will be lesson number two after eye/swing calibration.

Carry on

I agree with Chinobi, I wont strike for a smith who is a ditherer and cant make their mind up before I'm into the swing. Wandering the work around the anvil so I have to continually adjust my stance, mumbling commands, misplacing tools during heats, leaning over the work and blocking my vision, it all adds up to a pretty frustrating experience for me and almost guarantees I wont be back.

In the established shops, I don't think there was much talking, if any. The apprentice was brought up knowing how to strike for a particular job. The signals were given by the journeyman with his hand hammer. The signals varied from country to country and smith to smith.

 

The weight of sledges usually begins at 6 pounds. My striker likes an 8 pound, but to each his own.

 

Sayings and Cornpone

"When I nod my head, hit it."

    Very old blacksmith joke.

I work with strikers on a regular basis, and have made many things that I would not attempt on my own. I've made hundreds of hammers with different strikers, 12 years old to 88 years old, male and female, and most have never struck hot metal with a sledge. We're ussually working with 2 inch and under medium carbon steels and sometimes larger after they gain experience. We normally use a 12 to 16 pound hammer for this size work, and I would not suggest using anything smaller unless you're forging 1 1/4 and smaller. I also use a striking anvil that has not been hardened for safety reasons, and I don't let just anyone strike on my anvil. People will miss when learning to strike and a soft anvil is not as apt to throw the sledge back in their face nor break shards off. When you are making tools like this, striking is more like splitting wood with a sledge and wedge. If you have ever split wood, you know that it doesn't take long to know how to swing a sledge. A missed hit is a missed opportunity, witch means you have to take another hit to bust that log. People learn rather quickly and learn to let the hammer do the work. Just take a look at Alec Steele. He only weighed 88 pounds and was only 13 years old when he first came and threw a sledge. Now he weighs 110 pounds and can use any of my sledges with ease, even the 30 pound sledge.

I tell them it's like using an axe---look where you are going to hit!

When breaking in a new kid as a striker, I also place a small hammer on the ground with the handle standing up vertical, under the heel of the anvil, I ask them "do you know what that's for?,,,,,, when they give me that dumb look I tell them, "that's for you",,,,,,, another dumb look,,,,,,,,, "yeh you hurt me, I'm gunna hurt you".  Seems most of the kids get the right idea real quick.

It helps to know how accurate the striker is: using my son only cost me a trip to the emergency clinic: on Good Friday, out of pocket, and about a year of pain.

 

After a decade, I hardly ever get phantom pains from it, and the finger looks almost normal. :wacko:

A striker isnt just there to swing as hard as possible, they must also watch the piece just like the striker. They must learn to watch and understand what is trying to be achieved and strike with the force needed to acheive the right blow. This takes practice, so starting out with striking on a wedge splitting wood is a good start to achieve accuracy, but not power needed to do the right work. This takes time and practice but can be easily mastered with more work; Because its harder to correct a heavy blow that over-forged the work, than a light blow that should have been a little harder.

5starhobo, did you used to ride the rails? I just got back a few months ago. 

-Crazy Ivan (curious vagabond)