Crazy what you hear

[DanBrassaw]

This thread is a riot! I don't have a juicy tale of my own, unfortunately, but I do have to say that some of the adults should be excused of their ignorance as well. At least they're asking questions! Worse is indifference. Reminds me of the old joke, "What's the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know, and I don't care."

[Maillemaker]

I've heard the tale of a Klondike Days fiasco along these lines.

 

Klondike Days in Eagle River, WI is an historical re-enactment of the Klondike gold rush.

 

Several years ago, a blacksmith was demonstrating our craft, and a father and son were standing there watching.  The father obviously knew everything about smithing, and was giving his son a play-by-play so aggressively and loudly that the smith didn't even bother to try to compete.

 

At this point, the father says to the son "But this is all just a show", reaches over the safety rope, and grabs the glowing steel from the anvil.  With his bare hands.

 

Loud exclamations of surprise, pain, and legal ramification were then heard by all.  The smith was so shaken by this man's stupidity that he shut down the forge, and left immediately.

[Quarry Dog]

  It's hard to blame people for assuming that we're not actually hitting hot metal.  The world nowadays is so full of smoke, mirrors, and office cubicles that people think the only thing that's left is Hollywood.  If the world goes full apocalyptic, there will be a lot of people that won't have the first idea how to survive without Starbucks and McDonalds.

  Whenever someone asks me what I do for fun, and I say I'm a blacksmith, about 4 out of 5 times I get that monkey solving a math problem look.  When I explain, they usually look at me and say "Metal can do that?" but sometimes I get a "Oh, I think my great grand-dad did something like that,"  and to those people i give at least a little credit.

  I remember one guy in particular that had grown up in NYC, that didn't know where milk came from, or that onions are part of a root system.  I assume he did not pay much attention in school.

  All said, I think the lesson here is that you can fix stupid.  They have to be willing to learn though, even if it takes awhile, and it may be painful.

P.S.  I Hope you don't mind my stealing that saying BackyardBlacksmith, it's just too right on the nose, too classic, and too perfect of a description.

[rockstar.esq]

Interesting thread.  As I read along I found myself thinking of an observation I'd made some time ago.  Drive around a town for a while and look at the signs for businesses.  In my experience the majority of them will specifically exclude what the business does.  McDonalds doesn't write "restaurant" under their sign, Home Depot doesn't say "lumber yard" and so on.  

 

There's a purposeful disconnect between company names and their vocation.  Similarly the Politically Correct approach to job titles has sapped meaning from job titles.  The term "Engineer" is applied to everyone from a garbage man to the dude blaring the train's horns.  I don't see how that's better for anyone in the mix.

 

It seems that lots of effort has gone into revising the terms we use to define working parts of society.  The outcome leaves little relevant information to work out how it all comes together. I've literally googled local companies to try to figure out what they actually make.  It's honestly impressive how many "tech" companies have a website that will absolutely not tell you what they do at all.

 

Beyond all that, we've moved to a management society where it's genuinely difficult to define what most managers do beyond report to one another.  There isn't much of a proud legacy to be the third generation second shift manger of sector 7 G !  If you don't make anything, and your forefathers didn't make anything, it's not too much of a stretch to expect dumb questions when confronted with a demonstration of how something is done.

[Gor]

Not smithing related, but I have to share this one. 

Some years ago, I was working as a cook in a Waffle House. I told one of the waitresses that her order was ready, and went back to work on the next order. When I finished that order, I noticed that the first one was still sitting on the counter. I look further down the counter and find the waitress intently staring at something. I tell her again that her order was ready, and likely getting cold. She continues staring intently at something in front of her. I walk down to where she's standing and see two dry tea bags laying there. So I asked what, exactly, she was doing. She looks up and replies, "Trying to figure out which of these is unsweetened tea. I need to make some more."

[Stephen Olivo]

I am loving this thread.  So many funny stories.  I still need to find the shirt that has the answers to the 10 most ask questions of a smith.  Hilarious.  When I started blacksmithing I went to demonstrate at the minnesota zoo for john deer days with the president of the guild of metalsmiths and some other smiths.  He had that shirt and always put it out to refer people to constantly.   :D  Kinda fun answering the questions though.  Especially when you get a good story out of it.  

 

p.s. shared this whole thread with my wife and we both had a lot of good laughs.  

[Frank Turley]

Interesting thread.  As I read along I found myself thinking of an observation I'd made some time ago.  Drive around a town for a while and look at the signs for businesses.  In my experience the majority of them will specifically exclude what the business does.  McDonalds doesn't write "restaurant" under their sign, Home Depot doesn't say "lumber yard" and so on.  

 

 

...not to mention KFC. You get rid of Kentucky, Fried, and Chicken, especially "Fried."

[Geoff Keyes]

My Lady Wife is a spinner and weaver and knitter, pretty much anything to do with fiber, she has done.  She is also part of the local blackpowder historical recreation groups, pre 1840 fur trade.  She was doing a show and tell at a fair a number of years ago.  She was spinning sheep's wool into yarn from a big bag and an adult asked her, with a straight face, "How many times can you skin a sheep before it dies?"

 

Sometimes I don't know whether to laugh or cry,

 

Geoff

[onetreeforge]

I use to do the demonstration historical vilige, the number 1 question guys would ask is how hot is that fire?, all the kids wanted to see me put some hot steel in the water. how heavy is the anvil? no I am not casting, why do you hit it with a hammer.  

 

 

But yes there were lots of very very strange questions, it all got to be too much in the end.

[BackyardBlacksmithin]

Jerome Werth: No I don't mind at all.. And funny you mention if the world ends kind of scenario. I had a buddy at work last week who knows I do a lot of smithing tell me that if the world ever comes to a screeching stop I'm going to be a real popular guy.... Seems like nobody in todays society can really fix or make or do anything for themselves if it doesn't involve their Ipad or cell phone. Especially people of my generation. I'm 27 and I know people I work with that you would have to show which end of a hammer to hold on to much less what to do with it.....

[Dave Budd]

maillemaker has just reminded me of another eejit that I met once.  Whilst I had a decent audience during a demo, he stepped over my barrier rope and lit if cigarette on my forge!  Luckily I was so shocked that I just froze where I was, otherwise the bar that was about to travel from fire to anvil would've likely hit him in the face!  

 

Also, when you have sharp knives/tools out on your table, why do people have to check to see if they are sharp by touching the edge? not just the edge on one, but the edge on EVERY SINGLE SHARP TOOL!!!! 

[JL Riffe]

My stepfather,  who was once the smith at Silver Dollar City in Branson, often heard know-it-alls remarking that the forge was not real and that the metal was painted to look hot......

[Nobody Special]

The one that seems to come up for me, possibly more than the sword and horeshoe question, is "oh, you blacksmith.......so you have a watchamacallit....forge?" (occaisionally replace the word forge with anvil)

 

Swear I'm getting to the point I'm gonna start telling them, "nah, i just  bend the metal using duct tape, old jello molds and sheer willpower...."

[Steven K.]

I also worked in a Museum Blacksmith shop demonstrating.  The most common questions were:

"It that a coal fire?",  "Why does the iron glow?",  "How hot is it?", "How long does it take to make a nail or horseshoe?"

Those kids and adults want to understand what you are doing but it is really out of their realm of experience.

 

And being in a rural area, I expected farm kids to know what a hoe was used to do.  Then the farm kids pointed out their tractor used a 12 bottom plow and cultipacker.  No hand tools on a modern farm!  But kids with parents that gardened knew how a shovel and hoe were used! 

 

But we also got regular questions like:

"Is that real fire", "Are you a real Blacksmith?"

Questions from the curious but not observant.

 

And then the disbelievers!

"No kids, the fire isn't real.  There is a gas line hidden in the bellows."

That is when I would pull a hot clinker from the fire, drop it in the slack tub, and then hand it to them along with some coal and coke.

 

Most of the time people want to learn, but don't know what to ask.  It can get frustrating answering those questions all day.

 

I love hearing the questions other people have been asked! 

[Greenbeast]

 

"No kids, the fire isn't real.  There is a gas line hidden in the bellows."

 

 

I don't get this, as if a gas fire is not real fire?

Some smiths use only (or mostly) propane anyway

[Steven K.]

Greenbeast, your are right! It didn't make much sense at the time either. I was using a bellows and coal forge in a 185 year old stone blacksmith shop. He was implying to his kids that it was a fake forge fire and all just an act. I was amused, as I was forge welding when he came in the door. I count that as real Blacksmithing, not acting!

[mcostello]

Back when "Here's Your sign" was new, I had to email Bill Engvall and ask what that meant. Had never heard of it. Pretty sure I got mine right then and there.

[ThomasPowers]

I try not to insult an idiot parent telling his kids mis-truths about smithing; so I have worked some lead ins less abrasive than "You stupid twit!"

 

"While it is generally believed that smiths XYZ..."

"In earlier times they commonly thought that..."

"Hollywood would like us to believe that..."

"Video games don't really portray reality..."

"Many people have been told that..."

 

And having a piece of scrap wood handy to burn with "cold iron" is always useful.  I did a demo for a bunch of cubscouts once---a camporee---and what ended up being most popular was taking some 3/16" steel wire and making a couple of branding irons and branding their pack number on scrap wood for each group.  (I missed being escorted out of the building for a lay-off and so spent a vacation day I could have been paid for; but it was time well spent---15 years with that company; but I expected it to happen.)

 

My best kids story is of my younger adopted sister: raised in Las Cruces NM she went to visit our older sister in VA.  After deplaning at Dullus they road through the miles of VA woodland and finally my younger sister leaned forward and said: "Who waters all these trees?"   because back where she grew up in NM every tree was a *wanted* tree with irrigation to get it to grow.

[ThomasPowers]

Now to turn things on it's head; I've heard a lot of whoppers from smiths who don't know more than say 100 years of the history of the craft and so make pronouncements on it from a very recent and limited knowledgebase. 

[Frosty]

I love these questions, I think they're my favorite part of doing demos. The very best questions are from the kids while some of the most bone headed are from  their folks.

 

Like the kid who asks he's Dad, is that a real fire? Actually a pretty natural question as we'd coke up the coal early and just burn the breeze so there was very little smoke or flame. Anyway, Dad says, "No, there's a light bulb under the pile with a fan to blow the plastic strips up like flames." I'm thinking,  What flames? then the boy says, "but look, the steel is glowing yellow hot!" I was thinking, this kid's got it down! Dad says, "Oh no, that's a flashlight, it's not hot."

 

Well, I just reach past the anvil and touch the bar to the anvil's block to a burst of smoke a whoosh and ball of flame. "You have it right buddy, that's a real fire, this is real steel and it's really HOT." I think the lady standing behind Dad was maybe his wife for the BIG smile she gave me and the poke she gave Dad. Dad asked if it was okay if the boy stayed and asked questions. You betcha!

 

Dad was a decent sort, just didn't know smithing but the boy expected him to know everything. Kids are like that. We got that a lot, that was just the best one.

 

Mostly I use a propane forge at demos now so I don't hear the real fire questions anymore, the jet engine roar and dragon's breath is answer enough.

 

Part of my normal demo patter is dispelling the mythos of blacksmithing, knowledge and practice, no magic. I tell jokes, stories, describe what I'm doing, why, what the tool/hammer/etc. does, the usual. Usually after a little bit I'm fielding magic jokes and we're all laughing, then here comes this gal in a "mother earth" type gown with a small flock of sycophants taking note of everything she says. She breezes up in front of me gazes significantly at what's going on, picks up a leaf finial coat hook off the table on and asks, "Is this old or did someone make it?"

 

I say, "It's still warm from the fire." Folk in the audience behind her are looking shocked and biting their lips.

 

She says as she exits stage right, "Magic, it's just MAGIC!" The audience and I just stand there watching as she breeze off making more profound observations and her sycophant following diligently writing every word down for posterity. She's maybe just out of earshot when someone in the audience starts laughing and shortly we're all gasping for breath. For the rest of the day I have a pretty full audience and folk keep saying, "it's magic, just MAGIC!"

 

I don't know how many times it happened before I noticed this but on another day at the fair a teacher stops with a batch of elementary kids on a field trip. She asks if I can describe what I'm doing and maybe explain it to the kids. You betcha I can, love kids, best questions in the world. I say hi and tell them my name, teach corrects me with Mr. Frost and that's okay but I wink at the class when she's not looking. I'm IN, and we're off and rolling. I start by asking who knows what THIS is laying my hand on the anvil. One youngster is jumping up and down up front with his hand up so I call on  him. "Its a coyote killer!" He shouts excitedly.

 

Okay, I'm dead in the water for a few seconds, hadn't heard that one before but had to agree, even though it isn't an Acme anvil. Since then I've heard from a number of guys who've heard the same thing from youngsters at demos. One of these days I gotta get me a WilE Coyote stuffed toy to lay under my anvil.

 

My favorite type of questions at demos are the, Can you fix this? Oh baby! I love those almost as much as the kid's questions. I've always seen myself more as the town blacksmith type guy, a generalist who'll take a shot at whatever comes in. "Specialization is for insects." R. A. Heinlein.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[njanvilman]

Unfortunately, this will only get worse as time goes on.  Traditional wood and metalworking shops in school are rapidly disappearing.  There are very few colleges training "shop" teachers anymore.  Everything is moving to "STEM": Science, Technology, Engineering, Math.  I just retired after 37 years of teaching in traditional shops.  My students built projects from raw stock.  They had to work, in some cases, for months to complete their work.  I just found out that my shops will probably be no more after this year.  The wood shop will become a general shop for the Engineering classes.  They build glorified "Erector" set robots, all from kits.  The Metal shop with its forge, foundry, welding are, lathes and sheet metal area will probably cease to exist.

 

Many of my former students went on to become tradesmen, firefighters, policemen, mechanics and contractors.  I fear that these students will get left behind.  And more people will be ignorant of what it takes to make and build stuff.  And what it takes to figure out a solution to their projects.  I taught two generations and many of my former students were thrilled that I was still teaching and insisted that their kids take my classes.  As these shop disappear, there will be more and more ignorance of what we do.

 

Just my two cents worth to add to this thread.

[DSW]

Sad but true. Most of the high schools around me don't have any trades classes. There are a few dedicated "tech" high schools that the kids can attend part time to learn to weld, become a carpenter, electrician, plumber, hair dresser, chef etc. Unfortunately most of these classes are attended by the kids who can't cut it in the standard classes. It's sort of viewed as a booby prize for those who can't make the grades to get into college. It's truly sad that the few kids with an interest in the trades have to deal with the druggies and slackers who are just putting in time.

 

I help out pt with the night welding program and occasionally get asked in during the day, usually to do a project the instructor needs done. I usually get assigned a "helper" who is usually one of the better students in the class, but it's really sad the lack of basic fab skills these kids have. Simple stuff I learned in Jr high shop like how to make things square or basic fit up. The welding program really doesn't have the time to teach the kids these basics.

 

The one tech school near me was the last to close it's machine shop this year. There isn't a school in the surrounding 3 counties that still teaches basic machining. They dumped 89% of the machines and kept a few of the newer ones for their engineering prep program.

 

In the mean time the night classes are usually almost always full as guys try to get more skills so they can get a better paying job.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings again all /Josh

 

Let me do some math...  Most of us do 6 to 10 demos per year and answer about 100 or so dumb questions....   A professional trade teacher that did it for 37 years 5 days a week for at least 8 hours a day ...  10 to 20 dumb questions per day ..  that comes to about 7000 full day demos and at least 100000. dumb questions...   I commend you Josh..   Keep the faith the only weapon we have for stupid is education.  I refuse to give up and will continue to promote and teach as long as I can...   Maybe I could open a museum with some anvils to show people some of our past for educational purposes.   Oh you already did..

Again I commend you sir for you have touched many..

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

[Francis Trez Cole]

Ok I picked up this one from some school students a few weeks ago. The question to me was of course about sword. Then I was asked did I know the hottest fire was a blue fire. Really was my response. After talking to the Kid a few minute's His misiformation had come from video games. So I said to him that he needed to put down the video game and get out side more his teacher broke out laughing. A blue flame was good for cooking but not for forging. So now when I get a bunch of teenage kid watching me do a demonstration I ask what is the hottest flame. Its good to mess with kids and expose them to the real world

[Quarry Dog]

  Actually that is what they teach in schools.  It also makes sense in a lot of applications and even forging, well with coal/coke at least, I haven't messed with anything that uses propane besides a weed burner, and it's too bright outside to see if that has a visible flame.  A yellow/green/white flame usually indicates either impurities that don't really burn, or incomplete combustion, and is usually not as hot.  This goes for natural gas (like for a stove), oxy/acetylene (look for the blue cone), charcoal, and even coal/coke fires.  Yes, coal burns yellow at first, but once it's coked up it incandesces red/orange/yellow/white, and if you look across the surface of it against a very dark background you will see very short blue flames hovering over the surface.  Even with wood, at it's cleanest and hottest it is blue, although at that point there's really no difference between that fire and one that's made of charcoal, as it is just embers.  Just make a fire out of 1 lb. of wood and compare it to a fire made from a lb. of charcoal.  Even the hottest/largest stars are blue.  So all in all the kid was pretty much right.