Dishing Stump Repairs

[01tundra]

I use a Hickory stump for my dishing activities.  I've been through several Oak & Hickory stumps over the past year, usually have to replace them once cracks start forming in the bowl area due to the wood checking.  I finally found the "right" stump that is the perfect size and height for me.  I took extra precautions to apply Anchorseal on both ends to minimize checking, but it's slowly starting to show up.

 

Once the cracks form in the bowl it makes sinking not as easy since it accelerates the wrinkles in the metal.  The last stump I had I tried to fill the cracks in with some liquid metal filler compound, which didn't hold up to all the pounding for very long.  Since the last stump was a little short for my liking, I wend out and hunted for a new one. 

 

I really would like to keep this present stump, so I'm trying to come up with ideas on how to fill cracks within the bowl as they appear. 

 

I've thought about using a swage block, but with funds currently low so I'd prefer to stick with the stump for now.  Plus, I intentionally want the bumpy texture from hammering the dish in the stump, even though Hickory is extremely hard, I'm not sure if I could get the same texture sinking in a metal swage block depression.

 

Has anyone ever tried melting lead to line a stump depression like this?  Not sure if that would hold up or not.

 

Anyone have any other filler ideas?

 

Thanks.

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Have you tried a "bottomless dish"---like a large toroid where you are hammering over air rather than hitting the bottom of the dish.

 

As for preventing checking---can you find any *old* timbers that have done their checking and select a check free zone for your dishing form.  (old barn timbers for instance)

[01tundra]

Never have really thought about a toroidal shape, but that would work if I could figure out what and how to make it.

 

I can possibly find an older timber.  The Anchorseal definitely slowed the process, but it's still going to check as the wood dries.

 

If I had been thinking clearly and not in a hurry as usual, I should have thrown the stump in my kiln and dried it prior to carving out the bowl.......hindsight's a beautiful thing.  At least then I could've picked a check free zone as you suggested.

[ThomasPowers]

Fast drying may have *no* check free zones.  Have you investigated PEG like the wood turners use to work green wood----might be too much a pain for that size though.

 

I have a number of toroids: lifting eyes, large eyebolts, my biggest and best is from a ring and pintle hitch but with a very large ring indeed!

 

You can also make your own by bending round stock, welding the ends together and trying it on a cone mandrel

 

One armour maker I know takes pipe and curls the top edge over hot to provide a smooth edge and uses that.

Other armourers have taken dimensional lumber and force fit it into large sq tubing with the top a bit proud and so make their own "stump"

[Charles R. Stevens]

Just guessing, but looks like your about the size of the pentle ring on a HD trailer. I've also used large cast lag eye bolts. Then again turning a peice of 1"

[01tundra]

I was just looking around on King Metal's site a minute ago, when I saw a forged steel ring they had, made me think about forging my own. 

 

One possibility would be to weld short legs (L-brackets) onto the ring to give it elevation and mount it to the top of the stump.

 

A pintle hitch eye would also work good and be about the right size.  The ring only needs to be about 3" diameter, so there's lots of possibilities.

 

I appreciate the ideas.

[01tundra]

What do you think a hitch like this is made from, some sort of cast steel?

 

If the neck could be heated and the ring bent down 90 degrees, a flat mounting plate could be welded to the opposite end and it would work perfect I believe.

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Drop forged steel, you can see the flash marks on the side.

 

Got a LARGE vise?  heat from the receiver side place toroid in LARGE VISE and have a piece of pipe that fits over the reciever end to bend it

 

If your anvil is large enough.....I have 3 with 1.5" hardy holes....

[01tundra]

Yeah, I would've attempted that one from the wrong end, cheater bar makes sense.

 

Got it, thanks.

[ThomasPowers]

You want the ring as unchanged as possible so it's cooler and get's held while the other end gets hunkered down on/hammered/both

[Charles R. Stevens]

That's a 2" drawbar, for a truck receiver. So you have a bit of forging to fit a 1 1/2" hardy, much less a 1". But it would make a heck of a anvil tool.
This lifting eye is in my stash. Currently it's part of a cabled together wire roller (barbed is nasty stuff) but I know you can order them, might even be cheaper to find one with the right ID and a shank that will forge down conveniently, say 1 3/8 bolt. Tho I plan on forging this one to fit diagonally.
Of corse larking hear we usually cheat and rivit a weld on fence cap to a handle to make ladles ;-)

[01tundra]

I could also probably just cut the ring off and weld a piece of my 1" square stock on if I decided to use it as a hardy tool.

[Timothy Miller]

I once saw an old tinsmiths dishing stump it had the depressions covered with sheet metal that conformed to the depression, I presume to deal with this problem.  They were held in place with small tacks Just out side the bowl shaped locations.

[Glenn]

Would banding the stump solve the problem?

[Charles R. Stevens]

Glenn, I was wandering that, and smoking it for a week in the slacktub

[Fe-Wood]

The problem with drying wood from the outside in is that the outside shrinks faster that the inside, result is cracking. If you want to use wood you have 2 choices, 1 is let the wood dry very slowly. Here is a very basic rule of thumb, hardwood dries about 1" per year. The other option is to make a block out of CD wood. For instance, I came up with an old butcher block, a big one, about 16" thick and 2' square. No checking, big and heavy...

 

Good luck!

 

Bye the way, nice looking bowls-

[VaughnT]

Wood loses a lot of it's internal moisture through the end grain.  I've always had good luck with preventing checking by coating the ends of the wood with yellow wood glue to seal it up.  You don't want the glue in your depression, I wouldn't think, but everywhere else won't hurt anything.

 

Lining the depressions with iron sheeting or tin plate would certainly work, too. 

[Mainely,Bob]

If you really want a bullet proof dishing area and work cold metal then email me and I`ll send you a disc of nylon bearing material to drop into a pocket you can rout out of the stump. One of the advantages  of this is that you can pop the disc out and clamp it whatever is handy and use it like a "tuck puck" for bench work.

    The problem with working things like stumps,logs and other wood "in the round" that contains the heart of the log is that there is no way to dry them without having them check to release tensions incurred by the drying process. You can minimize the checking by cutting relief cuts from the side that reach to the heart of the log. these act like relief cuts in concrete slabs in that they ,rather than nature or fate, decide where the stresses will be relieved.
 For a check free wood endgrain work area for hot work you`d be best off going with stacked, glued and bolted kiln dried 4X4s or 6X6s. Ask around at the local decking or commercial construction companies for scraps rather than buying one from the lumber yard and cutting it up into short sections.Much cheaper if not free that way. Stay away from pressure treated as any smoke produced by the hot metal coming in contact with the wood will be toxic to both you and any observers/beer holders.

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Tundra,

 

I will pass on a few things I do...  The rings are railroad car springs with a loop welded on for the wedge hold down... I use this system for many of my anvil tools....   Forming is easy and to finish I use the bottom of an old oxygen cylinder ...  They have a super dish form and are made of tool steel....  You have to finish sand them but they are tough and last a long time....

 

Forge on and make beautiful things..

Jim   

 

             

[Frosty]

In olden days logs were let float for a long time before milling to prevent checking. I've had success on smaller sections boiling it to remove the sap and pitch. Once rinsed out it dries faster with very little chance of checking. I have NO idea how long a person would have to boil a large block like yours but adding a little detergent helps a lot, Dawn dish washing detergent worked a treat for me.

 

I used to collect and treat burls for little projects, the largest was a spruce burl 15" x 21" that got turned into a punch bowl. It doesn't have to be kept boiling, that just speeds the process up considerably.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Judson Yaggy]

Lots of good answers here, but if you want to stick with wood with minimal checking there are a few options.  First, cut or get a big log that you can slice off new sections as needed.  Discard as they check.  Next, look into finding a "free of heart center" sawn timber, they tend to check much less than log sections or boxed heart timbers, but they do turn into a parallelogram as they dry.  The final option is to use the information that FEwood gave above and understand that wood shrinks as it dries.  If you wax or end seal a timber but leave a centered heart unwaxed you can noticeably reduce checking, the unsealed heart dries closer to the same rate as the sealed perimeter wood and shrinkage stays more constant thru the log.  

[01tundra]

I appreciate all the ideas.  I have applied Anchorseal to each end of this stump to minimize checking and it has helped, but it's still going to check to some degree.  I could throw the next stump in my kiln and dry it prior to carving out the bowl.

 

Let me ask you all this, since I've never used one, would hamming bowls in a swage block be a worlds difference from what I'm going now?  This Hickory stump is so hard, I'm not sure if I'd really notice any difference hammering in cast iron instead.  I've been wanting a swage block for other uses, but if I could effectively do my bowl work in it as well it gives me more justification for looking into purchasing one.  This is a long term solution type of deal, that's why I'm wondering if I should be moving away from stumps for making bowls.  To put it in persepective, I've made 40 bowls since Monday night and will make at least 40 more before the end of the month, so if springing for a swage block will make life easier down the road I'm willing to save up money for one.

 

I was thinking that I could possibly pick up a smaller (60 lb) swage block with a 3" ladle dish in it and set it on top of my stump.

 

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

 

 

[01tundra]

I've got a bid in on this 3-3/4" dia. C.I. ladle swage on ebay.  It's got a bar cast on the bottom side designed to clamp into a post vice. 

 

I figured it would be a more cost effective experiment than sprining for a full blown swage block at the moment.  If I like the way it works, I'll have to figure out a way to recess it in my stump.

 

The Delrin swage option is also intriguing, not sure how well it would hold up to continuous long-term use though.

 

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

With production of 80+ a month a die set starts looking good. Even if you hand finish for astettics. I'd be tempted to use the pentode ring and a 2 5/16 trailer ball to preform my cup.even if it saved you 30% of your work.

[Geoff Keyes]

BTW, the bottom of gas bottles and old style fire extinguishers make for nice forming tools.  Weld a shank to them and drive them into a stump, or clamp in a vice.

 

Geoff