Guiltyspark Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Right now I'm having trouble putting a good consistent edge on my knives. And shaping them is becoming a chore with my equipment. Right now the only real power tools I'm using are a cheap 7 inch angle grinder and a Ryobi belt sander flipped upside down. I'm worried about both because they are sloppy and really heat up the metal. Can somebody explain to me what I need to invest in if I want to start making edges that are good enough to sell? I have seen these multi wheel belt sanders but it seems like it would be too expensive. Am I wrong? Could these be made cheaply . Like under 500 dollars? I did see a buffer/knife grinder combo from grizzly that looks like a Kalamazoo. What is the difference between a two wheel system and a 3 or 4 wheel system? Or is all I really need a wet wheel grinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 What you really need is a good three wheel knife grinder. They usually start at about $700 for a class and a kit. Top end is around $7,000. I bought one that I really like for about $1,000! The three wheel grinders are much smoother than the two wheel models and that smoothness is of vital importance. I have used equipment just a step or two above what you have now and was AMAZED when I first started up my newest grinder! I had never imagined that the difference would be so profound! I now sharpen dull blades routinely in about a minute each... to hair shaving sharpness! I bought mine from Jose Navarro: http://www.2x72beltgrinder.com/info.html I really like mine and feel that it has been made with care and thoughtfulness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
switchjv Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 im currently building my own belt grinder from a design i found on youtube. He claims that he built his grinder for about $100. Ive found that i have spent about $200 so far. i still need a 1.5 HP motor to run it. By my estimations, i will have probably spent around $350 for everything. However, a new "factory" made grinder will set you back a couple of thousand dollars.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ONrJB5sDQk&feature=share&list=UL5ONrJB5sDQk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Paul Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Have a look at the craftsman 2x42. It's no KMG, but better than what you are using. I believe that the cost is about $200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 If your good at building stuff their are plans around for grinders from simple two wheel to exact KMG plans. If not save your money. Beaumont Metal Works basic grinder without motor is $750. If you can find a used motor cheap, or a good deal on a new motor you will be into it for under a grand. The Pheer grinder above looks like a good deal for a variable speed unit but it doesn't look as solidly built as the KMG and 1hp is a little under powered. I started using the belt sander in a vise just like you, and you can definatley make knives that way, the biggest difference is time. A 2hp grinder with 72" belt takes off metal a lot quicker. My advice would be keep using what you got till you can save up and get a good quality 2x72" like the KMG or Bader. Also I would highly recomend the Variable speed. I didn't get it and I seriously regret it. It will be years before I can convince my wife I need a new motor, better to do it right the first time. Also keep your eyes open in the tailgating section etc. I have seen a number of used machines recently for very good prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 If you cannot make an edge with hand tools a grinder will allow you to ruin more blades much faster. Keep and ey on knfe chat and in the future we will cover just that, how you use hand tools to sharpen blades. It will be best if youi follow along with how we do it and do a lot of them yourself to get the most out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Rich is absolutely right, If you can't make a blade that you think is good enough to sell with what you have now, a new grinder isn't going to change that. Take your time, It is better and cheaper in the long run to save up and buy one grinder that is going to last forever than buy multiple cheap ones that don't cut it, only to find yourself buying the good one in the end. The time spent saving up is time well spent learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loneforge Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I've made a few blades myself and up until recently I did all my edges with hand tools, I also agree 100% with Rich. I have just started using the belt for sharpening and it's not very forgiving. The reason I tried is because I was getting behind and didn't want to spend two days getting one out the door. I made a bunch of practice runs on some unfinished blades that are on the bench. I have used hand tools to finish all work my thus far. I do plan on getting a 2X72 belt grinder to help speed up the process I already have down with hand tools. I encourage learning this way first. I have a hard time ruining stuff with hand tools. If you add horsepower to any craft be ready for mistakes to happen at lightning speed. Cheers Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhettbarnhart Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 this answer probably wont be liked but i went to harbor freight and bought a 1x30,is it perfect?no.Is it high quality?No.but did it cost only 30 bucks and does it work and speed up the process?Most definitely.i also use files a lot too which is a great skill set to have,and you will never regret buying 1 or 2 or 30 good files :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Justin; My Pheer grinder IS 2 horsepower! It has tubing tool arms but Jose offers some with solid bar tool arms. Having used it I have no desire to upgrade to that level... mine works fantastic! I am sharpening quite a few lopper blades for a customer who has a commercial landscaping business and it is so easy and quick that it's hard to believe! I test the lopper blades by shaving hair on my hand and by clipping grass If it does both of those things I call it good! usually takes me about 2 minutes per blade to get them there... including the final hone and testing. I find that I really don't use the tool arms at all most of the time... I freehand grind on the slack belt or on the contact wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 BTW I have one of the Craftsman 2X42 sanders and used it for many years... I would NEVER go back now! I had no idea that my new Pheer grinder would make SUCH a difference! I am sure that this is true of the KMG, Bader, etc. grinders also! Just on the sanding belt costs alone I will pay for my new grinder over a few years. In terms of efficiency, quality, versatility WOW! I was foolish to work with that old Craftsman all those years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Plans and a kit based on these plans http://blindhogg.com/eerfgrinder.html http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html Polar Bear Forge lists a breakdown price of just under $800 using his kit. I would recommend practice with whatever equipment you choose. You can do stock removal on wood or mild steel bar stock to get good at maintaining shapes, maintaining angles, grinding to dimensions, grinding to layout lines, profiling, etc. There are also jigs that can be made to aid in holding features like angles in control. I don't even know where to start describing them there are so many concepts. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Woow finally got it where I can share it : and there are Blue Prints as well.http://www.metalwebn...ife-grinder.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 2 x 72 is the knife maker standard, so there are more options in belts, the 2 x 24 or others wont have very many options, and many sizes dont have much if anything for metal. See the other posts I already made for more information, if you need it, no reason to repost the same thing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno C. Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 There are plans on the internet for building a belt grinder without need for welding. Basically using square tubing and locking screws/bolts. The hardest part is finding the contact wheels and bearing gizzards for a reasonable price. I bought one of those coote beltgrinders: http://www.cootebelt...rinder.com/ <--- good design, not the cheapest, and you still need a motor, but at the time I wanted to focus on my projects without adding another one. Had money, did buy, still happy. Around $400 at time of purchase, plus another $150 for a new 220v 1HP motor. Arrg, not to mention wiring cost's... Everything is always a process :mellow: Otherwise, if I were to build one, I would look into the no weld type of grinder, as they are relatively easy to make, modifications are only limited to your imagination and funding. http://www.mickleykn...ld_grinder.htmlhttp://usaknifemaker...y-50-pages.html Some moderate googling will bring you more results on the subject. I still drool over the KMG's whenever I see one. A friend of mine, bought one of those cheap Harbor Freight , something like 4x36 belt sanders:http://www.harborfre...nder-97181.html and has had good results. Not the best thing for production type work, but nice to learn on, will do the job, with a little patience and practice. At $80, it is not a bad option, in my opinion, for learning on, or doing a small project now and again. As always, you get what you pay for. Somewhere maybe on this forum or another knifemaking forum, someone built a Japanese style grinder using 2x152 or something belts, Basically had a giant contact wheel, and only the top part is where you would make contact with the work. Something like an old timey pedal powered Stone Grinding Wheel (about the same size as one), except it had more of a tabletop design to it, with interchangable belts and a motor. I'd build me one of those if I had the materials... Can't find the website, but here are some pics I've found along the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfman6 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I have Grizzlys 2x72 grinder and I love it. Its right in your price range too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 My suggestion is to do a lot of research before you buy. Not knowing your mechanical skills, a grinder is fairly easy to build and Beaumont Metalworks make excellent wheels at a reasonable price vs value. Also, caution is necessary when purchasing a VFD. A nema 4 enclosure is strongly recommended. I purchased one drive that lasted 9 days. It was replaced, and the second lasted 1 hr. I received a full refund and bought a drive in a nema 4 enclosure. Building your own grinder is a lot of fun and it gives you a real sense of pride when making your blades. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 The guy on the bike grinder is Dana, now a commercial wine-maker for a major vineyard. Made a pretty funny commercial for the NC community college system about the transition from starving artist to gainful employment. The guy with the wheel-in-a-box is Murray Carter, ABS Master Smith/traditionally trained Japanese sword smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Woow finally got it where I can share it : and there are Blue Prints as well.http://www.metalwebn...ife-grinder.pdf Those are VERY good plans - I used those plans and photos of KMG grinder for building my 2"X72" grinder and it turned out pretty good. Looks just about like the KMG grinder. I used 1/2" aluminum plate rather than 3/4" steel listed in plans to save weight. I have about $250 to $300 in the grinder with the platten setup - no 10" contact wheel..... yet. Ken H> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Ken H , that is what I am Building (on a budget of coarse) so all the metal is taking me a bit to pay for . I too am doing it in Aircraft alum. to cut down on the Weight so i can move it if needed and save on taps as well the shop cutting it out for me is very good and working with me on producing it for a few folks close to me as a kit so they can put it together easily. not taking it from the owner just helping others on a cheep build of an awesome grinder . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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