KenH

That "H" design is good for a 16 ton press - much the same design as the Coal Iron 9 ton press they sell as a 12 ton (they use a 3" cylinder at 2550 PSI). I changed the 3" cylinder to a 4" cylinder so I could get an honest 12 ton. I do like how your dies are held in- I think that is a good design. Looking forward to seeing the next video showing the die installation and pressing some hot metal. A very good job with the build.

Since we've not heard from the OP anymore about this project I thought I'd add the following info I found today online for forklifts on the https://www.forkliftaction.com/forum/discussion-forums.aspx site. The main system relief valve pressure for lifting is 3,125 psi. This is adjusted at the relief valve on the bottom and toward the outside of the hydraulic control valve. Check pressure with the mast at maximum fork height and at full throttle. The secondary relief valve pressure for tilt and side shift is 2,250 psi. This is adjusted at the relief valve on the front of the hydraulic control valve. Just above the lift relief valve. Looks like the forklift pump should be just fine for a hydraulic press, depending on flow rate which I would suspect to be suitable since the forklift would need to operate reasonable fast.

Frosty's got it right - first of all decide what you've got, and how it will fit. Use the links in the "Press Calculations" to determine how many tons you'll have with the size of cylinder you've got. The forklift should have a control valve with "UP/DOWn" as well as the "Forward tilt/Rear tilt" functions. For a press all you'll need are the "UP/Down" controls. You might be able to plug the tilt port and use the control valve you've got. The pump on a forklift might well be a low pressure/high volume pump. With the size of the cylinder I doubt it would take much pressure to create the lift required for the forklift's load.

Frosty, I just realized you left a "0" off the end of your number of 7854 lbs - looks like a 10" cylinder with 1,000 psi give 78540 lbs of pressure - almost a 40 ton press! 10" is a huge cylinder. OR, did I miss something in my calculations?

Hello ya'll I've not posted much here, lurking more than anything and reading. I found these calculators that are handy for hydraulic press building; This one is good for determining tons from a cylinder. https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm This one is good for speed of travel depending on ram size and GPM. The GPM used should be the low pressure GPM of the pump i.e. 13/4 gpm pump is usually 13 gpm at <600 or so PSI. Once the pressure goes about 600 or so the low speed of 4 gpm kicks in. https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_speed.htm This one is good for calculation of electric motor hp - this should be with the high pressure GPM, not the low pressure gpm for hp required. https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/motor_calc.htm I hope these are of benefit to some folks Ken H>

On the Coal Iron 12 ton (really only a 9 ton due to use of 3" cylinder) the reservoir is mounted so the oil outlet is perhaps 1/2" below the center of the hydraulic pumps inlet connector. This puts the oil level perhaps 6" to 8" above the pump inlet providing plenty of head for the pump.

I just now found this thread - GREAT job on that Sunfish, and even got the fish on the sail:) I'm an old boat bum myself, lived aboard 25+ years and raise the family on a 40 ft sailboat. I'm impressed (beyond impressed!) with your woodwork, and the hardware built from scratch. Isn't retirement great having time to do those "fun" things? My only gripe about retirement is the aches 'n pains of old age.

I'd LOVE to find a pump spec'd at 2,000 rpm or so to increase the flow rate of my press. If your pump is an 1800 rpm spec'd at 16 gpm with your 5" cylinder it would give you ~3 inches/sec travel speed which is pretty fast. My press with 4" cylinder calculates out to about 2"/sec which is "ok", but would admire to be a tad faster. A pump of 10 to 12 GPM would be just right. That wouldn't give any more tons, but faster travel. Since the die is usually not much more than 2" away from hot iron that's only 1 second travel time so it does work ok. I also wanted a small mobile press since my work area in in the backyard, and didn't wish to leave press outside all the time, so I opt'd for the Coal Iron 12 ton mounted on a cart that I roll outside when in use, and back inside when not used. You asked about cost - I purchased the Coal Iron 12 ton press so it was around $3200 shipped including the cart when I ordered a yr or so ago. I added pressure gauge and the 4" ram instead of the 3" ram it comes with, which only gives 9 ton at spec'd 2550 psi. I was only getting 8 ton since the pressure was set low at 2250 psi. I was amazed how well it worked for only 8 ton. With the 4" cylinder I'm comfortable with pushing the frame to 14 ton. Your cost of $1600 is about what I calculate cost to build a 16 to 20 ton press, especially if using the "H" frame style. I've got all the steel to build a copy of the Coal Iron "H" frame press using 3" angle rather than the 2" angle they use. I'd be very comfortable with 16 ton (maybe 18?) {g} with the new frame. This would require purchasing a new pump, motor, and control valve along with the various hoses 'n fittings. I'm thinking around another $800 to $1K to have a complete new press. BUT - that would weight a good bit more than the current press and be harder for me to roll in 'n out of storage is why I've not done it..... yet {g}. Had I known half of what I know now I would have built the press, but didn't know anything at the time. The press has been a good learning experience for me. Bubba, I've enjoyed chatting with you on this thread and exchanging ideas and knowledge.

Yep, it's amazing - but looks like crainpress.com is now for sale. That is one fancy control panel for a press.

With a 5" cylinder and 5hp motor you've got PLENTY of power for sure. What RPM is the motor? What RPM is the pump rated at 16 GPM? The "12 ton" Coal Iron press I've got has a pump spec'd at 13 GPM, but that's at 3600 rpm. Since it's got an 1800 RPM motor that gives a 6.5 GPM pump at low pressure, then it kicks into low for a much less volume flow for high pressure which is normal for 2 stage pumps. I agree with you how useful the press is - I know some folks say you need both, power hammer and press. I do think my first choice by far is the press. I think it's ok to post these links here, they are VERY helpful for press calculations. To calculate the press tons: https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm To calculate ram speed: https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_speed.htm

Hello Nick, I know it's been a month since you asked the question, but I just now saw the thread with no other responses. I'm surprised with the lack of response - this forum is usually a very helpful bunch. I am NOT a press expert at all, not like some of the other folks here. I've seen other presses with dual cylinders, and I sorta like the idea. A bit more complex, but you've got them on hand already and that should more than offset the extra cost of hose 'n fittings. From what I remember (very poor memory here) about the only thing you'd need to be concerned about is running the main high pressure hose close to cylinders, then have the "Y" split to be equal distance between the "Y" to each cylinder. Another point, your 16 gpm pump is "most likely" a 2 stage pump, it's rated 16 gpm at low pressure, up to around 500 to 700 psi, then it goes to low GPM, perhaps 3 or 4 gpm at high pressure. This allows the press (or log splitter) to move rapidly until resistance is met, then switch to low flow at high pressure. Good luck, and I'd like to hear how things are going with the press. I've got a Coal Iron press they call a "12 ton", but it's actually only a 9 ton since they're using a 3" cylinder at spec'd 2550 psi. When I got my press it was only 2250 psi giving 8 ton. While it did work "pretty good", I paid for 12 ton and really felt they shouldn't be false advertising like that. I wound up changing to a 4" cylinder and running at lower psi for safety to have 14 ton. Ken H>

Thanks for the replies - with the 1hp my slowest speed was around 1000 SFPM that I used for finish grinding and working on wood handles. All this is pretty new to me, and while I've done a LOT of reading/learning - I don't have much "hands on" experience so it's a real learning curve for me. I was surprised when changing the drive wheel only 1/2" changed the SFPM so much - quite a bit! Thanks to the whole group - always been very helpful to me. Ken H>

Hello all, I've got my KMG clone running pretty good on the 1hp motor - but that just is a bit on the weak side. I've got a 2hp 3450 RPM motor I'm planning to install. Running the numbers on belt speeds with a 4-step pulley, the normal 4"-3.5"-2.5"-2" size pulley. From my calculations it looks with with that type pulley (belt drive) and a 3" drive wheel, the speeds should be about 1016 FPM, 1443 FPM, 2845 FPM, and 4064 FPM. Do those calculations sound in the ball park? How do those speeds sound? Should I be trying for a different set of speeds? I know a VFD drive would be best, but that's not going to happen due to cost..... not yet anyway<:) Thank ya'll in advance for any guidance and suggestions. Ken H>

Tim, Thanks for the input - your comments agree pretty much with what I've found. As in writing sometimes, I didn't directly mention this was for heat treating - note the 1525ºF temperature mentioned. For forging I don't see any need for PID control, I just crank the forge as high as it'll go with 5 to 7 PSIG. Monitoring with the K type TC it seems about 2100ºF to 2200ºF is about max for my little forge, depending on if I've got both burners going, or just a single burner. I am wondering if the blade that's inside will see the fast swings in temp as would the bare open end of TC - I'd planned on blade lying on a nice heavy steel plate as a heatsink. I should be able to watch any slight color change of blade to see if it's holding fairly steady or swinging much as the burner is cycling off/on. I see what you mean by Dan Fogg's forge - as a blown forge it should be easier to use good PID control for. I've got most of the stuff required to add the blower to my forge, but I think I'll wait a bit. Today I used the PID control on a toaster oven I plan to use for tempering - held about ±2ºF - maybe 3 with the empty oven. Again, I think with some mass inside will help stabilize temps some. While I'm not a PID control expert, I've done a bit in chemical plants of yrs past using stand-alone controllers. For the last 15 yrs, this control has been with large DCS systems so I never got involved in that. Just amazes me that I've got a PID controller at home with the same stuff I tuned in chemical plants. Thanks again for the comments and ideas - this sure is a GREAT site. Ken H>

Answered my own question - I took a dremel tool with a fiber cutoff disk, slowly worked my way around outside cutting a shallow groove. By the time I got almost all the way around - just separated at groove. Clean break. Now I've got a 6" ceramic sharpening rod. Ken H>

Is there any "easy" way to cut ceramic? The ceramic sheath I got is 12" long and the TC is only a 6" probe. Tip of TC really does need to be at end of sheath. Thanks for any suggestions or ideas.... other than "beat it with hammer"<:) Ken H>

Hello all, There have been some good threads on PID control, and from reading it seems like a gas forge really needs to be a blown burner rather than atmospherically aspirated burner. With the blown forge, it's the blower speed that gets the PID control - is that correct? Then a solenoid valve that's also controlled to turn OFF/ON as required? I've got the Auber SY-2362 PID controller to play with - neat piece of equipment. I tested it today with a small single burner forge using a side arm burner I built from drawings on http://zoellerforge.com/sidearm.html site. I've been using the gas forge a while, seems to burn good. Today controlling at 1525, with controller set for OFF/ON control rather than PID, it seems to do "ok" holding ±5ºF range at best - with some larger excursions from setpoint. These I think were due to a good bit of cool wind blowing into forge - and the thermocouple is exposed directly inside the forge. I've got the ceramic sheath from Auber to protect the thermocouple - I think that might help control temps better. In reading the SY-2362 manual it says PID control shouldn't be used with inductive loads like solenoids, but rather the OFF/ON control should be used. My question, does anyone use PID on solenoids? OR is only OFF/ON control used? I know PID control will cause the solenoid to open/close often and pretty quick. I'm thinking I might wish to add a blower to burner, but do need to do some reading and learning before. Thanks to all for any suggestions and ideas. Ken H>

WOW!!!!!! A very impressive RR spike!!!

I've read about those temperature crayons, but never looked into them. I just did a quick check of the tempil.com website. They have 1400ºF, 1450ºF, 1500ºF, 1550ºF range of temp sticks - AND, they are $130 or so per box of 10. Perhaps I can find them at welding shop where I could buy single crayons. Thanks for the reminder - that would be good to double check the K thermocouple reading I get. Ken

Rich, Thanks for the idea of comparing grain - why didn't I think of that. I found the broken blade from the Buck 501 knife, clamped both broken ends together under microscope - the Buck grain is smaller than the 1084 grain. Kevin has some really good info on his website and I used it for the tempering temp. I'd sure like to be able to control temp while normalizing to the degree required, but at this time I can not. Just heat to non-magnetic, cool - then try for a "tad" less temp. I'm working on a "K" thermocouple for my gas forge, but doubt I'll be able to control temps as close as required. I've read (depending on steel) 1525ºF for first, 2nd at 1500ºF, then 1475ºF for 3rd and final heat - then to 1500ºF (again depending on steel) for quench. I'm sure having fun learning all this good stuff - fortunately I've just retired and don't have to sell anything<:) Ken H>

Yep, I know 1084 is one of the simple steels - that's why I chose it over 1095 or 5160. I've got a piece of 1095 I plan to try before long. I've got a coil spring from a farm implement of some type. The coil steel about 1/2" in diameter when cut and straighten out - I've made a couple of blades from that and it "seems" like it might be 5160 - I heat treated as if 5160 and got the expected results. Those blades are pretty tough - not tested one to destruct..... yet. I heated in forge and pounded steel rod until it looked like a knife blade, then finished on 2"X72" grinder. I'm sure having fun with this knife making<:) Reading in this forum has given me a LOTS of knowledge on how to work steel. Built several burners for gas forge, built 2X72 KMG clone, just lots of fun things. Ken H>

Thank you for your comment - and Ooops!!!! In trying to put all the pertinent details I forgot one of the most important of all - what type of steel. It's 1084 that I ordered from USA Knifemakers. I was pleased with how tough the steel is when heat treated. It took more pressure than I expected to bend far enough to break. I did the brass rod test, and it did seem to pass ok - I could see the edge rolled a bit, but not stay rolled over. I've read so much about keeping a small grain structure I was curious how that compared - AND "IF" the photo was clear enough to actually see the grain enough to judge. From what I've looked at in photos, and what my meager experience tells me - it seemed good. Thanks again for the comments. Ken H>

Hello all, I made a couple of blades for a Buck 501 knife that had a broken blade. This photo is what the two blades looked like before final finish. The next 3 photos are of one blade after heat treating. Normalizing twice by taking to non-magnetic, then cooling. Then to non-magnetic and quenching in canola oil. File wouldn't cut at all - just slide. Then bake in oven for 1 hr at 400ºF for 1 hr- did that twice. Then for final finish. I took the one blade, clamped pointy end in vise about an inch from end, grasped other end with channel locks, bend over until break. Top section has a nice bend before breaking just above vice jaws. The 3 views are at about 15X under microscope (a stereo microscope I use for SMD work) - USB camera isn't very good. Those images are the best I could do. My question: can ya'll tell anything about the grain size? Does it look "ok", is there anything obviously wrong with the looks? OR perhaps the images just are not detailed enough to make a judgement call? Thank you for any suggestions and help, Ken H>

I'd guess the threads were either forged or cut with a torch (grinning) Ken

What a neat idea - simple but oh so effective! Thanks, Ken H>