Gor Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 So, I was doing a little work this evening, making another pair of tongs (these for round/square stock), and I noticed it was starting to get dark. I have a really simple set up, and all my light is supplied by Mother Nature. The only thing I had left to do was finish punching one side of the tongs and then rivet them together. I finished the punch, cut the rivet blank, and impatiently got it hot. My stock and my punch are the same diameter, so it's always a bit of work getting the rivet through, and the light was failing ever faster. Hammered it through one side, then the other, then put it into the fire so I could flatten the heads. I'm pretty proud of my last set of tongs, but my riveting needs work, so I took a bit of care on getting both heads flattened and looking nice. Still had a bit of heat left, so I tried to work the tongs a little, and they wouldn't move at all. Back into the fire, hoping it was just where they shrunk and I riveted it pretty tight. Good, glowing orange, and still no movement. I noticed the jaws weren't quite lined up either. After getting closer to the fire so I could see a little better, I discovered the problem. I had riveted them together backwards..... So, lesson learned. Don't smith in the dark. Better to wait another day than to have to destroy the best looking rivet I've made so far. By the way, anybody know how to get the XXXXX things back apart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Angle grinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I agree with Rockstar. Grind off one end of the rivet and then punch it out. Many medieval guilds had regulations prohibiting working after dark, probably for this very reason, quality control. With the days getting shorter and the fact that we're back on standard time you might want to get a headlamp for when you get caught short by Sol. Illuminatingly, George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Sounds like something I've done many times. :wacko: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 A sharp cold chisel will behead the rivet. Of course you can make a butcher and it can't mar the tongs but it's not neccessary. Now you've got that little beginner's mistake out of the way it's time to move onto the next head slapping goof. Yeah, I think everybody who's learned this craft with the exception maybe of folk who had professional smiths as teachers, masters, etc. has tried to push that last little thing after it's gotten too dark to see properly. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 One of our exceptionally good farriers, Dave Duckett, used to practice making horseshoes in the "dark" using only the incandescence of the horseshoes for light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 If you have a desk lamp and have/could make an overhead brace, you could clamp the lamp onto the beam and work the night away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Good Morning, Make your punch for the rivet with a tapered punch. Lightly file a mark or make a small groove at different diameters. It only matteres that YOU know what the marks mean. When the rivet heats up the diameter grows, take that into account. To remove the rivet, file or grind the head down/off, Drill a 1/8" pilot hole in the center (allows the rivet to shrink), punch out the rivet. Original size is maintained. The only person who hasn't had an OOPS or a Learning Experience is a LIAR. There are never mistakes, just finding another way that doesn't work. :D :D :D Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Just remember to put your hammer down before you slap yourself in the forehead. ;-] Concussively, George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Forging after dark is dangerous in many ways. The one that is not mentioned is the intensity of the light from the fire. Photographically f/16 is daylight, f/11 is 1/2 the f/16 light, f/8 is 1/4, f/5.6 is 1/16 (this is where the shadows from the sun disappear) and f/4 is 1/32 (the overcast from a rain cloud cover). This is still daylight !! AND yet full sun is 32 times more intense. I have a meter that measures to within 1/10th of an f/stop and it is easy to see the numbers fluctuate as the light changes even a little bit. In the dark, the fire is not a soft glow but more along the lines of a welding arc to the eyes. You can not put enough artificial light on the work area to make it daylight, and try as they may, the eyes can not adjust to the difference in intensity. Think about the blacksmiths that wear shade 3 welding goggles DURING THE DAY to protect their eyes from the intensity of the fires brightness. And yes, I wear a shade 3 welding glasses to forge and the eye strain is so much less at the end of the day. Forging after dark is an eye hazard that is not discussed and in my opinion a safety and health hazard. That said, there is nothing like dropping something in the dark and not being able to find it. Just put a piece of 1/2 inch or larger metal into the fire and bring it up to heat. Pull it out of the fire and the incandescence glow, or light given off by the metal, looks and works just like a strong wide area flashlight, or the garage trouble light that was used before everything went to LEDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Safety first there are many things you can do to protect your self. Which you should do rushing is never a good thing. I do a lot of blacksmithing at night I do have lights that I use in my shop. I try to keep the lighting the same day and night so I can work. When you ringing you anvil it keeps the dark prince away he was Shod once by Dunstan an experience he will never forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I have a couple of halogen work lights I bounce off the shiny white ceiling of my forge if I need to work after dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Thomas, you must paint your ceiling frequently. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george m. Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Dear Glenn, I agree that the forge fire can be unhealthily bright and that some sort of protection is a "good thing." However, how do you handle shifting your focus from a bright fire to a dark anvil? Do you have some sort of flip up lenses? Actually, I don't look deeply into the fire very often unless I am trying to judge welding heat. Usually all I see is the top of the fire and I judge how hot the iron is getting by time and experience. Brightly, George M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 George, I have had issue with trying to forge with dark lenses. I use dididium (sp) glasses to forge weld. They are the ones the glass blowers use to look into the glory hole of a glass furnace. It has takem me some time to get used to them when welding but when welding you NEED to look into the fire. For regular forging I don't need to look into the fire I can pulll the piece out or just use the tried and true jusgments of practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaljohn Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I've learned my lesson with this too. Don't rush ,walk away from it if you haven't time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard V Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I have also used a drill to correct a similar problem...... Impatience has ruined more good stock and good projects for me than anything else.... In iron, wood, or leather I have done this far too often. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamfab Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Patience teaches me a lot of things in the past. Despite that, I am still working on how to stretch it a little bit longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Mr Few Hammers; I've never painted my ceiling yet; why would I need to? Propane forges and good chimney on my coal one seems to do fine... Also excessive ventilation is just about right and the ceiling starts at a 10' wall and goes up to a peak so it's not real close to smoke that escapes. What's kind of funny is that my walls are the propanel off a co-worker's roof that was dinged by hail. It turned out that there was a roof penetration for a woodstove that ended up being in a handy spot on the wall for a chimney for the forge to go through. 10' of 10' spiral seam vent pipe at a very steep angle. (I have a couple of stainless chunks for the last bit when I get the shop adjusted just right...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I have found that it is good to make many and all mistakes quite early. That way you can get a lot of learning in quicker. And... I am VERY GOOD at making many and all mistakes early. Actually my first set of tongs went pretty well.. other than they probably took me 3+ hours to make. I cheated and used a cut off hex head bolt as the rivet. This worked quite well actually. It was rusty scrap. On my second set I put them togther wrong like you did. It's interesting how one can make such a bone head move right in front of myself. By the way I had plenty of light! Then I riveted in triple so to speak. My tongs weren't together when heading the rivets and so I had an internal bulge in the rivet between the two tongs. This basically froze them up. So let's gride out another rivet! I also had to learn to make a rivet that I can actually insert into the hole (or vice versa perhaps). A cold rivet that fits in a cold hole doesn't necessarily fit in the same hole once heated. This is quite annoying trying to make go in! Then of course there was the time I just burned them up after all that work.... !!!! Burned right at the rivet hole! I also have ugly folded over rivets. They work but look like crap! My tapers need work and I tend to over hammer and make small tongs. So now I have several small and similar tongs when what I need is some bigger robust tongs. But I'll get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Wow, thanks for all the replies and ideas. Got the tongs fixed now, just heated them up and cut the rivet with a chisel. I'm glad I'm making mistakes, that means I'm learning. Besides, it was good for a laugh. I'm of the opinion that you generally have two options when something happens. You can laugh at it, or you can cry about it. I'd rather laugh any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Laughing at yourself is a good thing. Folk who take themselves so seriously they can't laugh tend to be laughed at rather than with. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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