Shop walls.

[samw1]

Hi all I'm trying to figure out what kind of walls to put up. Right now it's bare studs and sheet metal walls. I want to insulate to keep me warm this winter. Will drywall be ok with deniem insulation around the forge and normal insulation everywhere else?

[DennisG]

My shop has drywalled walls with thin tin on the 2 sides near my forge. How well does this work? I used to have a thermometer on the wall to the right near the top of the wall and the heat was high enough in there to break it yet my walls have never burned. Oh, and my fire pot is maybe 1 1/2 foot away from the wall. My shop is 8'X10'long and a 7' roof.

Does that help?

Dennis

[ThomasPowers]

Drywall is pretty flimsy in a blacksmith shop----lengths of metal tend to poke through it. Things knocked over punch holes, etc. One way to use it is to "armor" it like Dennis mentions.

The real question is what are you trying to do and is drywall the best way to go about it? How about normal insulation and sheet metal walls---at least to 8' and then drywall to the roof?

[Frosty]

This is a pretty open question for a meaningful answer, there are just too many variables to consider. It's like asking, "what kind of car should I buy?"

Where do you live? Cold country, hot? Dry country or damp? Building codes? Etc. etc. You get the idea.

In general though a smithy needs to consider fire hazards, mostly regarding hot cutoffs rather than heat from the forge. Propane forges can produce a LOT of radiant heat and the convection heating above one can be significant. So, in short I prefer fiberglass insulation. Sheetrock is okay but may need some armoring in places.

Those are generalizations of MY preferences. (YMMV)

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pug}{maN]

what are you heeting with ? i have no insulation and tin walls with a wood stove and i need to crack the door sometimes at 26 outside temp.

[samw1]

Frosty, I don't understand what "hot cutoffs" are. I am running charcoal, the chiminey is surrounded by 2/4s" and 1/4" thick. I know what to do with the walling. Having trouble with the codes. If I knew how on a phone I would upload a pic in a heart beat to give you a better idea.

[Spots]

Hot cut offs are where you cut a piece of steel with a hardy or chiesel and the cut off piece goes flying and sets something on fire. Or thats my understanding of what he typed

[ThomasPowers]

Yup one blow too many and a 1600 degF chunk of steel can go flying 20 feet away inconveniencing passerbys and *always* landing on the *only* flammable material withing a dozen feet! (Blacksmith version of Murphy's law)

[GMoore]

My shop has corregated metal on the inside walls with paperless insulation behind it. My forge (coal) and my wood stove sit about two feet away from the wall, but I have also placed cement board between the stove/forge and the wall.

[Frosty]

Ayup, a cutoff is a piece that's been cutoff and goes flying. I have a standard rule in my shop, do NOT part the steel on the hardy or with the cutoff, score and bend to break. That way the HOT part is always under control. Yeah, like always under control isn't an oxymoron.

Murphy's law as applied to a smithy says any loose piece of iron/steel, etc. WILL find the only out of sight hole with something flammable in it, OR your pocket. This rule of nature is why I always wear my pants over my boots/shoes, I really hate having to dunk a foot in the slack tub. Another old timy term I just made up is, "Flyoffs" those are small HOT parts that come out of your tongs and go flying to find the hidden bit of lint, cardboard, cat's tail, etc.

You can find the local fire codes at the library or fire station, the guys at the fire station will be unbelievably helpful. Just do NOT park in the way, if an alarm sounds they may NOT go around. It's a fire fighter thing. Ever notice how large the front bumpers are on fire trucks? It's a direct response to folk not clearing the way on the road, they will clear the path and YOU have to p ay for a new bumper. Sorry for the digression but the firehouse is there to deal with fires and prevention is so much easier. They're good guys.

Frosty The Lucky.

[cvmikeray]

My shop walls are 3/4 inch plywood .... Insulated behind with those hard foam sheet you get at the big box hardware store (Blue or Orange) . Then I can nail or mount whatever I want.

[Kenny O]

What did you do about the glare from the corregated metal?

My shop has  on the inside walls with paperless insulation behind it. My forge (coal) and my wood stove sit about two feet away from the wall, but I have also placed cement board between the stovve/forge and the wall.

[Avadon]

Lotsa of things to consider here. You might want to ask your counties building department and see what they say is allowable on the walls. Why mess with the? Well if your shop burns down some day and it wasn't built to code you may have a total loss on your hands and your insurance carrier won't pick it up. If your renting then you definitely should be more than careful working in someone else's shop.

I've worked in numerous shops with drywall and they always get dinged up from carrying in the stock delivered from the steel yard. The sparks from grinding always spray the walls and leave nasty discolorations. That said, drywall was invented for fire prevention and to compartmentalize fires and stop them from spreading quickly. If there is no electrical in the walls than there isn't as much of a need for the drywall. Most shops run the electrical on the outside of the walls in conduit chases vastly diminishing the threat from an electrical fire which is one of the most common ways houses/shops go up. If you are planning on doing the electrical outside the walls than I'd imagine you can probably use other materials for sheeting your walls. Plywood looks great and hold up to a lot of oopsies especially when it's covered with tin or stainless, of course this is quite expensive. Usually the metal is just around where the forging is being done or where heavy grinding/sanding is done.

How long are you going to be in this shop? If it's a year or two than I wouldn't invest much, if it's the rest of your life than spare no expense. I'm building a shop addition 35'x70' to my 720sq feet standing shop and I plan on doing the works. Exterior rigid foam, spray foam in the decoupled walls and sound clips for starters. I intend to use nice plywood inside instead of drywall (i'll be looking at it to the day I die) and cover it with stainless in some areas. The plywood is also easier to screw things like conduit to as well as steel piping for compressed air.

Paper back Fiberglass isn't bad if your on a budget. Just make sure you install it very carefully as gaps on top or bottom or even on the sides diminish the effect of fiberglass immensely.

what are you heeting with ? i have no insulation and tin walls with a wood stove and i need to crack the door sometimes at 26 outside temp.

I heat with electric and WOW is it expensive. I really need to get a wood stove. My neighbor has an old school one. The heat that blares off of that thing is impressive! Even with NO INSULATION it can heat up a 20x30. They are pretty crazy. You can even buy brand new ones for $700-1500 range. If you think that's expensive than you should see my $400 power bill for one month of the winter. The one advantage electrical has though is I can turn it off instantly and go off into town without any fear of burning anything down. With a fire you do have to make sure it's either out or fairly well controlled before leaving it unattended and there is always a concern that maybe something has happened.

I've heard of builders doing exceptional insulation and having a constant 50dgs year round in their shop without any heating at all. Just make sure if one builds something like an air tight thermos that you have some fresh air circulation or heat exchanger in use. You definitely need fresh air in a building, especially a smithy.

[BobL]

My shop has corregated metal on the inside walls with paperless insulation behind it. My forge (coal) and my wood stove sit about two feet away from the wall, but I have also placed cement board between the stovve/forge and the wall.

 

The metal work end of my shop has mini corrugated iron (we call it miniorb) and rock wool insulation behind it. The miniorb is surprisingly sound deflection/absorbing - I wish I had done my whole shop with it.

 

Here it is just before all the machinery was installed . Of course the painted floor is a bit of a waste around the forge but I wanted to keep the concrete dust down in other areas of the shop.

 

[TheFullSmokingBar]

My shop had OSB when I moved in. It's working fine and I think it's not too expensive.

[yves]

In a silo. Steel walls, insulation, rather thin. On the right, wood stove for the cold days. Cement floor.

 

[Avadon]

oddly enough OSB is quieter than plywood, in that it has a better sound absortion rate giving it a slightly better tested STC value (and it's cheaper). However OSB is not very fun to paint, takes a ton of coats, and leaving it rough isn't as nice looking as finished plywood.

 

If your going to hang OSB, you can might want to consider putting up the first panel, then applying green glue to dampen the sound before adding a second layer of OSB over it. (See green glue instructions). This does improve sound isolation, but clearly not as much as two layers of OSB on a decoupled wall or on a wall with resilient channels+clips. It won't do much though for an R-value.

[Kenny O]

What about fire retardence? that stuff looks like it would burn fast.

 

 

Nevermind, I read your earlier post about putting up tin in certain areas.

[BobL]

I just realized the image I thought I had posted in my previous post in this thread did not appear.

Anyway, here it is.

 

Also I show a couple of photos of my metal work fume hood.

Extraction uses a variable speed fan up to about 500 cfm