Borntoolate Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I am starting a new project and need to make some new tools. Mostly hardy tools. I need some fatter hunks of metal than what I have on hand. I have a bit of RR rail but it has issues. What sources of readily available fat metal do you folks have. I am thinking I need something on the order of 2"x2" or thereabouts. Also, I want some of this to be hardenable to stand up over time. Any secrets out there. The other thing I have tried is to take some RR spring clips and straighten them out then fold them over, forge weld until I get a big enough hunk. This will work but it's pretty slow going and I am not real sure about my forge welding skills. But this stuff is definitely hardenable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Those tools and wot you make them from have a lot of options: lI made a small diameter fuller from mild steel a long time ago and still use it now and then. I have another tool that i have to have it precise and crisp each and everytime and I made it from H 13. For that, mild may move a little bit. if youi are using the fuller on hot mild steel then cold mild steel may work. If you want to make a hot cut mild may work well for a short time. 4140 or 4150 works pretty well for most fullers including most hot cuts. Mild steel sources are depndant on wot your area has. Vehicle wrecking yards may be a source for car or truck axles and they make good hardy tools.Where you find the above tools steels in your area i do not know.. However Old and Rusty on this site has a smithing shop. I believe in your city. A call visit or note on here mayh be a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 I used some 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" mild steel and added a piece of leaf spring on the cutting edge to make a really nice cut off hardy. It worked very well and the cutting edge stays sharp. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Go to a spring shop and ask to sort through their dumpster. Most all of it is spring steel, the beginning is straight, the middle is arched but all is good. May be surprised what else is in the dumpster (grin). Remember to thank them with donuts or cookies early the next morning or pizza for lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 As George points out the stems of hardy tools do NOT need to be high C. It is often only the contact area that profits from higher carbon steel. 2x2 is HEAVY stock---what size hardy hole do you have? As for possible medium to high carbon steels: car/truck axle, forklift tine, some agricultural scrap, the ends of sucker rods, or my favorite for my 1.5" sq hardy holes---old top tooling with the mushroomed end cut away and the eye area forged down to fit. At Quad-State I buy the cheap battered ones for a couple of bucks at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 As George points out the stems of hardy tools do NOT need to be high C. It is often only the contact area that profits from higher carbon steel. 2x2 is HEAVY stock---what size hardy hole do you have? As for possible medium to high carbon steels: car/truck axle, forklift tine, some agricultural scrap, the ends of sucker rods, sledge hammer heads, jackhammer bits (bought broken or worn from a rental store---*cheap*), or my favorite for my 1.5" sq hardy holes---old top tooling with the mushroomed end cut away and the eye area forged down to fit. At Quad-State I buy the cheap battered ones for a couple of bucks at most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGreen Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 ya'll are confusing me again .I read a lot of years ago tha a hardie was not beat on.cut your metal while it is red or hotter,but not all the way thru.that said,why use high carbon steel if you have a stout bevel an don't cut all the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 We don't mean to confuse anyone. But the hot cut will work a lot better if it has a carbon cutting edge. I have tried a mild steel hot cut, and yes it would cut. But after just a few cuts, it needs the cutting edge redressed because it is getting dinged up, even though I was cutting hot mild steel. I have several other hardy tools that are mild steel and they work fine. But with the sharp edge on the hot cut, you will do better if the cutting edge is carbon. My 2 cents. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I have made a lot of hardy tools from old pry bars picked up at yard sales and junk yards. None too sure of the carbon content but, my cut off is still going strong after years of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I use 18-wheeler truck axles squared up on the power hammer. The pneu pavement breakers have a larger diameter "collar" forged integral to the tool shank. That portion can sit on the anvil when inserted. One side becomes the hardy shank, and the other becomes the tool. Blunt tools can be mild steel. I have fullers made of round ms arc welded to thicker tool bodies. They are holding up well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Go make your hot cut from low C steel. after awhile you may decide to try high C for the hot cut. It will not take long to appreciate the high C hot cut as it will last somewhat longer with regular usage prior to re=sharpening. I am re-learning the same story right now since I just changed anvils. This evening I should be back with a high C hot cut. Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 What can work, what will work, what works really well when combined with what's easy to make, what's cheap to make and what's in your capabilities to make; can give a different answer to different people for what they *should* make. Mild steel hardies are a *good* item if you have a lot of students hitting them with a hammer as it's easier to grind a new edge on the hardy than to reface a hammer with a slit in it. Medium carbon hardies left normalized are better though as they take less damage yet are still softer than the usual hammer face. If you are doing a lot of hardy work with large stock and will be hammering on it heavy with it buried in hefty steel for appreciable amounts of time a high alloy hardy like S7 or H13 may even be called for. (Myself I make high alloy hot cuts and use them instead of a hardy as I prefer to do such heavy hammering over the sweet spot of the anvil and not the "fragile" heel!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I got a bunch of drops of 4140 that is what I use it is 1"x 1 1/4" I taper it up first then up set it and then shape to you desired shape you do not need 2" stock. find out who makes springs in you area and see what they have in scrap. I got some 2" train spring good stuff. the first one I made was out 1 1/2" rebar still us it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob S Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I need some fatter hunks of metal What sources of readily available fat metal do you fat metal? what next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Fat tongs to hold the fat metal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 .. However Old and Rusty on this site has a smithing shop. I believe in your city. A call visit or note on here mayh be a good thing. Good point. I am probably overdo for a visit there again anyway. As George points out the stems of hardy tools do NOT need to be high C. It is often only the contact area that profits from higher carbon steel. 2x2 is HEAVY stock---what size hardy hole do you have? As for possible medium to high carbon steels: car/truck axle, forklift tine, some agricultural scrap, the ends of sucker rods, or my favorite for my 1.5" sq hardy holes---old top tooling with the mushroomed end cut away and the eye area forged down to fit. At Quad-State I buy the cheap battered ones for a couple of bucks at most. My hardy is 1". I just through out the 2"x2" as sort of on the high end. Additionally the junk yards around here don't sell to individuals anymore. I like the idea of putting a tool material only where needed. did not think of that but that is an obvious approach. Thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 fat metal? what next? Fat tongs to hold the fat metal? Actually, that is exactly what happened. I decided to make a sizable drift from a 1" Square bar I had. I needed a fatter hole than any of my current drifts which are all either skinny or physically fit. I would call 1" square plump and on the verge of being "fat". I quickly realized that my tongs were inadaguate for holding about a 12" section of this stuff and it was too short to be able to hold by hand even at the first heat. so yes Jeremy is correct. I need fat tongs, that is next. You guys are AWESOME! I probably should visit old and rusty since he has many fat tongs as well as a very scary power hammer that would work way better on fat metal. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I have an S7 hot cut hardy. I forged from 2" square. It is ground to narrow edge and holds the edge well. This thin edge makes cutting stock easy because less force is needed penetrate the steel. The S7 is red hard so the thin edge lasts longer than other steels. If you have the ability to use this steel I recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 My hardy is 1". I just through out the 2"x2" as sort of on the high end. 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 round or square will have plenty of mass to forge, upset, and draw out the desired features. If you are buying new steel then 1045 would be easy to hand forge and have reasonable edge holding on a hot cut. 4140 is what I used for my hot cut and 1045 for my turning fork. I started the fork with 1 inch square for a 1 inch hardy because spreading the tines provided the shoulder. I just split the bar a few inches, spread the tines, rounded them and bent them where I want. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 So I already have a hot cut made from a jackhammer bit. This was more for some tooling for other shapes. Sounds like mild steel will do the trick in many cases. In other cases I like the idea of forge welding on something hardenable as needed. Truck axels and such just aren't something that is readily available for me. I visited a couple junk yards that folks have gotten things from but that was a no go. I think you need to know them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 in your development of tools you just need to look at are you going to use it 100 times or 1000 times the more use the better the steel you want or you make it more than once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Well, I am hoping to be using these tools for decades. At some point I am hoping that someone else will be using these tools for even more decades and so. And well, I am an engineer so like to over engineer stuff for myself such that it lasts FOREVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 So why dismiss my using new steel of a proper alloy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Well, I am hoping to be using these tools for decades. At some point I am hoping that someone else will be using these tools for even more decades and so. And well, I am an engineer so like to over engineer stuff for myself such that it lasts FOREVER. Well, I am hoping to be using these tools for decades. At some point I am hoping that someone else will be using these tools for even more decades and so. And well, I am an engineer so like to over engineer stuff for myself such that it lasts FOREVER. So why dismiss my idea of using new steel of a hi performance alloy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob S Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 So why dismiss my using new steel of a proper alloy? but is it fatty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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