Blacksmith - limited to a wheel chair

[Glenn]

Sometimes things happen where a blacksmith can no longer work as he once did. This is usually related to mobility. There are others that have physical problems that would like to start blacksmithing, but the tools are too tall, too heavy, or whatever. Let's start a discussion on ways and ideas to address these problems.

To start, how would a blacksmith that could not walk easily or was limited to a wheel chair make changes so they could work in their blacksmith shop.

Any suggestions?

[Glenn]

Tony Pewton UK Blacksmith mentioned one time that he worked in a blacksmith shop where the smith sat in a chair suspended from the ceiling. Think of a boatswain's chair.

This would allow the smith some mobility, but would need grabs for the feet so he could maintain one position when needed.

Another possibility would be a similar set up, but suspended from a trolley railing attached to the ceiling, such as a barn door track. This would need some thought but could work.

[Sam Salvati]

That is a tough question. Not having firsthand expeirience, but I think I can say that alot of blacksmithing equipment is set low, my rivet forge is set up on blocks, because I would have to be sitting to use it otherwise, The anyang style of power hammers is also very low set, allowing for sitting while using I would say. as far as making an existing shop suitable, slearing a large enough path to get around through all the stuff in the shop for one, then lowering everything to a more comfortable height.

[habu68]

An anvil formed from a piece of 3 to 4" shafting or 4x6 flat stock could be set in the ground low enough to work between the leg supports on a wheel chair and still have enough mass below the work to be effecient. A similar support could be made with a hardy hole to use with a bick or hardy tools. A leather split leg apron is advised. We might also look to photos of 3rd world blacksmiths who work sitting on the ground for Ideas. Also a piece of RR track set up like a tall bridge anvil comes to mind. Example mid page: Link removed at the request of anvilfire

[cheftjcook]

I like AP's direction, recreate your world, just a bit shorter and widen the work paths for easy of movement and work from the wheelchair.

But if a Smith was looking to be independent and free from the wheelchair, which is more than understandable, maybe we should think more linear as opposed the tradition triangle work path arrangement.
You could set up a narrow longer shop with working stations, forge, anvil. power hammer, swage, drill press, cone mandrel etc on one long side and all hand tools, hammers, tong and lengths of iron on the opposite wall with in short reach.
With an I-Beam rail running in front of stations hung from the rafters. Or better explained... between the long wall of stations and the opposite long wall of hand tools mounted to the rafters.
The I-Beam rail could also be a large oval (closed loop) configured track running in the shop, again mounted to the rafters running past main work stations and curving around to the opposite tool wall and curving again back to work stations. leaving a bit of open space in the center of the shop but very user friendly to the limited mobility Smith.
Set it up like you would a winch system running on the I-beam rail you could rig it up with winch electric servos to position the smith up/down or left and right. The smith would be in a swinging seat or jumper setup on the rail with hand controls for servos affording him greater independence and freedom of movement within his/her Smithy.
Just a thought
TIM

[johnny99]

OK. A little bit of topic, but I have to share.
I was at a blacksmith auction a couple of years ago where I was out bid for a treadle hammer by a smith with only one leg???? (true story)

Seriously though I have had several friends who although not paralysed, suffered from reduced mobility. None of them seemed to have a huge problem getting the work done. Several favored the mechanics rolling stools w/the tray underneath. and just set their anvil and forge lower.
A lot probably has to do with what your making. A bladesmith is going to have a lot easier time of it than someone trying to do large architectural things. Maybee a shift in focus to knives, reproduction hinges etc... ,or jewelery style stuff. Where more care and less gruntwork is required.

[Mikek]

my dad has been in a wheel chair for about 17 years now, he worked for the first 10 or so as a cabinet maker, one man show pretty much, i think that your only limited to will and creativity when your in a wheel chair

[Sam Salvati]

Not to make a joke or anything, but if I was in a wheelchair, I think I would have two, one for regular moving about, and one for working on, it would have all sorts of tool holders and racks and stuff for small things, tools, hammers, welding rods, all that.

[LarryM]

Just thought I add my two cents. First of a swing type mobil chair needs to have a place for the smith's feet to rest. Or be low enough so their feet could to touch the floor. A power chair would be better. You need to build everything lower. But remember that there cannot be any cross rails under benchs so chair will be able to go under it. Same with forge and anvil. The anvil stand should be built so that a least the front part of the chair will go under it.


LarryM

[Ian]

Hmmm,
I had a bit of a think about this and keep coming back to the wheelchair time and time again as the main issue. Most large tools are designed for the able bodied and adjusting their normal working heights etc would be a lot of work. Also a smith striking hot steel produces sparks (okay red hot scale) and even with a leather apron I wouldn't be too keen to end up with a lap full (even if I couldn't feel the burns) even worse is the idea of dropping hot steel into your lap when you can't physically get out of the way. My idea would be to redesign the wheelchair into somthing that would hold the disabled smith in a taller, more upright posture. Almost as if he/she was standing. Think along the lines of a climbers harness crossed with the seat from a 'suspended' rollercoaster. The chair frame would be taller and use two triangular shaped 'A' side frames mounted with four wheels, a top mounted attatchment for the actual seat/harness would pivot in increments allowing the disabled Smith to pitch himself forward or backwards to whatever degree he/she needed.
That way there's no need to change an existing shop or go to the additional expense of modifying all the equipment. All you're doing is modifying the Smiths posture in relation to the workplace.

I've put in a VERY quick and dirty sketch just to give you an idea.

[blkbear]

My first thoughts were much along the lines as cheftjcook, however rather than having the I beam suspnded in the ceiling I was thinking of having the I beam running close to the floor. A chair/seat with I beam runners could be mounted on the I beam and the seat would have a locking mechanism - the same as modern day office chairs where you can lock the chair into a comfortable position. The smith could push/pull him/herself along the I beam to the desired piece of equipment and lock the chair in place, via a hand lever, so that they could apply force to the piece being worked.
If the equipment could be arranged in a circle or oval then the smith could move back and forth between anvil, forge, vice, power hammer, etc. and lock the chair into place using the hand lever.

[habu68]

The problem with a track system IMHO is that a smith in a wheelchair has mobility and the track would limit that mobility. I would think that the equipment design and layout would be better if designed around the chair. Another thought, if the smith is using both hands to control the chair an adaption of the chair might be made to hold the reins of the tongs.

[trying-it]

Thusfar it has been either modify the equipment and/or the individual wanting to 'smith. Both options are highly feasible & workable. However I offer a third realm of possibilities, adapt the processes. An example:mini hydraulic presses.

I love a good challenge & quest.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/santa-blacksmith-2193/

[ThomasPowers]

Well his hands still work so he would just flip the apron to deposit the steel on the floor---what I have done when forging sitting down.

Also the anfil should be *lower* the wheelchair/legs will not fit under the anvil stand the anvil should project so that the person's legs can fit around it a bit.

At Estrella, Febuary of this year, I had one smithing student that had one normal arm and one that was just a stub with 3? fingers on it. He did just about as well as any of the other students and was quite happy that I gave him the same chance to risk himself as I did any one else. Tong clips helped a lot as he could manage to clasp the tongs but not to apply pressure on the reins.

I interviewed and suggesting hiring a lab tech in a wheelchair in my last job. He did have problems with high things but he was much better than the rest of us when it came to working low. He's pop out of his chair and sit flat on the floor then pop back in---NB *never* offer to arm wrestle wirh someone who's been in a wheelchair a long while. he also would do the driving when we went out to lunch as he could disassemble his chair and throw it in the back seat faster than I could walk around the car and get in the other side.

As a diabetic I have no fears about having to give up smithing if I run into foot/leg problems. I worry about my eyes as I do not feel that smithing by the braille method would be much fun.

[Glenn]

A related thread, sit down forging

[larrynjr]

My son is disabled and in a wheel chair full time. At this point he expresses no interest in much physical activities. He'd rather play video games. (who'd have guessed!)

One thing that springs to mind if the potential smith stayed in his /her chair, is hot metal dropped on the floor, melting / popping the tires of the chair. My son's primary chair is a power chair with air tires.

Depending on that potential smith and their mobility, I think a power hammer would be most useful for forging. It would be much harder to get the correct angle and power to hand hammer from a chair. Not impossible to overcome but just more effort in initial shop set up.

I think some sort of overhead chain / cable system to help hold the weight of hot steel as it moves from forge to anvil would be useful too.

[ThomasPowers]

I have taught several people with various physical issues and know of many more---a one armed knifemaker for example; but have never had a wheelchair bound student---yet.

I don't see that scale in the lap to be an issue; you could run the apron a couple of inces over the lap from the sides for example. OTOH straps are generally not indicated for may people in chairs as the pressure on areas with low/no sensation can cause *big* problems.

I'd worry more about popping tires as hot metal and rubber mix poorly and the tires are often pneumatic.

Having a sliding chair on a rail sounds much better, especially with a locking clamp for when they want to exert themselves.

Also small work suggestion, a one firebrick forge can do quite a bit and have a forge table and anvil set up easily accessed from a single position.

Teaching people who have often been told time and time again what they can't do is a real joy. One of my students had about 1.25 arms and using tong clips managed to forge some things. I hope to see him in about a month and a half and work with him some more. The hardest one was a friend with very bad eyesight; blacksmithing is not a braille technique process!

More importantly is proper safety equipment. How many of use "avoid" a problem by just moving aside, tilt/turning our body, etc. many people with physical issues don't have that luxury and so proper safety equipment is a must!

[Glenn]

Given the ability and desire if the individual, something can be created to allow them to function at their level of ability. I am not sure I would want someone with a disability working alone.

Blacksmiths solve problems. If we had a specific individual to work with, knew their limitations, abilities and desires, the talented blacksmiths (and free thinkers) on this site could, I am sure, figure out something.

WAIT A MINUTE !!

YOU have already done that by teaching blacksmithing via computer and the internet to people all across the world. It is YOUR knowledge, and willingness to work with their limitations, abilities and desires, that solved their problems, or encouraged them to get started in the craft. Only later did you find out they were half a world away.


So working with a handicap would be just be a little more of a challenge.

[Glenn]

If a wheel wright can retire a wooden wheel why can a blacksmith not adapt an all metal wheel to a wheelchair? Replace the wheelchair tires with a slightly modified steel rim and using round bar or pipe to replace the rubber tire.

Or use the robot (military or police), replace the rubber tracks with metal tracks, and weld a chair to the chassis.

Or use mechanical arms (NASA, or the NUKE industry) in one room (or location) to manipulate a process in another room (or location), for remote blacksmithing, thereby keeping the individual safe.

Depending on the individual's limitations, abilities and desires, it could be done at some level.

[ThomasPowers]

Glenn, I thought about the metal lunar rover tires that were sort of springy so not as likely to hang up on some trash on the floor.

[Jerry W.]

Depending on the individual's limitations, abilities and desires, it could be done at some level.

Limitations, abilities and desires. I too feel that these would be the most important issues. The blacksmiths that I know are all very mechanically inclined and very capable of coming up with solutions to problems that are presented. With the specific individual in mind, shop and chair modifications could be made to accomodate the smith.

Where there is a will there is a way....

[steponmebbbboom]

let us not forget cost limitations. robotic arms and halftrack machines would reach stratospheric cost.

the only thoughts i have at the moment would be as/re lunar rover tires, this could be accomplished using crosshatched aircraft cable of a sufficient diameter to support the weight of the smith and still provide some cushioning. it would be woven much as the nylon plies in a bias/ply tire.

also, any fixture to support the smith in an upright position would be out as it would be near impossible to securely support the smith without compromising circulation to the femoral arteries. my thinking would be to bring the knees slightly above waist height and cover with a fireproof drape to prevent pooling of any slag or debris in the crotch area.

i have often wondered what it would be like to harness myself to the electric bridge crane at work and fly around the shop with it. i think this would be the most practical solution, however still astronomically expensive and a means for securing the headache ball so it cannot twist sideways and installing a servo motor to allow yaw control would be needed. and lastly, how can the smith move himself with this contraption when both his hands are occupied with his forging work? perhaps a mouth fixture? grip the joystick with the teeth and move the head to fly aropund the shop, a toggle on the end for the tongue to lift/lower and roll the teeth sideways to yaw/turn? im getting a headache just thinking about it. and im not even going to bother to pick up a calculator.

[Glenn]

Expensive? Price a new fully decked out handicap van, with motorized wheel chair. We are offering suggestions. Like anything else, we first design, then scale back and use the ideas that work for a specific project, and that we can afford.

Blacksmithing is dangerous. People with full use of their body get hurt. Those with some diminished ability we can assist in the craft. Those that are unable to help themselves have no business in a smithy situation other than an occasional observer such as at a demo. There are way too many ways for them to get hurt.

The diminished ability individual can work with cold metal such as wire, tin, copper, brass, etc, but again it depends on their diminished ability.

The main issue with this thread is we have no specific diminished ability individual in mind, and can not address specifics. But like anything else, pool all the knowledge of the membership and we could, most likely, solve the problem. Untill then I would hope that someone could put the ideas presented to good use.

[Finnr]

Sometimes we tend to complicate things far more than they need to be. By taking a look at the elaborate items in use and simplifying the method by which they are made I think that a whole lot can be done with grassroots methods.
Finnr

[Ice Czar]

think that the third law of motion needs to be paid a bit more heed
a wheelchair is fundamentally different from a pair of feet in the traction available, any suspension system even more so. Any force vector not coinciding with gravity will pose issues.

either, the hypothetical smith needs to be sitting in a larger mass
or the seat needs to be securedbracedlocked

Id think a means to quickly secure a leverage point then free it for mobility is the first step.

IMO ;)