Rangerdave Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 While writing a post I thought of this and would like to hear some of the opinions of members with more experience than myself. When someone experienced makes something are they / you satisfied with your work totally or do you always think I coulda or shoulda maybe done this or that instead? Are you happy with the art you produce and the flaws here and there make it one of a kind art? Or do you know exactly what you want to do and do it with no flaw or imperfection? Rangerdave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I am most always happy with how something turned out and even have been surprised at times! But, with every piece there are flaws. I may be the only one that knows about them but they are still there. I don't feel that you can make 'perfection' as we are not perfect. I'm like a cat after he has caught his prey....I'll take it (project/art piece) in to let my wife see it, if she approves then I think I can pass it before the world! She is my best critic. She hates it because she is afraid that she will hurt my feelings. I do have to promise I won't get upset with her comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 well..i am my own worst critic,but i have redone/modified on them to be better or easier(flexability) is great, if it's for some one else then right or wrong it is their openion that matters (sometimes). but Mr. Dean is right.."there is no such thing as perfect"some times them "little goofs" are the thing that makes it better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 You can ALWAYS do better. That's the enigmatic aspect of doing "one of a kind" jobs. The learning process, that you experience in making the first item, ... usually helps you evolve a better plan, for similar items, in the future.Experience is the best Teacher. Doing strictly "artistic" work, doesn't really appeal to me. I do Mechanical Design, ... and operate on the principal that any fool can build a complex mechanism, to do a simple job. The "art" of Mechanical Design, ... is in building simple, elegant, but fully FUNCTIONAL tools and machines. But the dilemma is the same, ... it's not until you complete the first design, that you REALLY know how to build the next one. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 You can ALWAYS do better. I agree. If I do a piece and like it enough to make another simular, it is always easier as I have learned more of what NOT to do! But even then I have imperfections, never to the point that I will allow to get to the public but they are still there...I don't think you can make the absolute "perfect" piece, no matter how good you are....IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awalker Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 It has been interesting doing art work professionally. I have made plenty of things that I have thrown in the scrap bin. I will not send out pieces that I think are flawed. They can have minor imperfection, but not flaws that take them from professional work to home hobbyist level work. There are two reason for this. First, I make mistakes with the best of them, the difference is that I know how to fix them seamlessly, or know how to cut back to a point that I can do so. Second, I have achieved a level of competence that things I do with metal come out professionally the first time, without as much effort, even things that I haven't done before. I have some bronze work that I am going to have to repair for a job near the end of the year. I have never welded bronze before, but feel quite comfortable with it simply because I have successfully worked wiih other more exotic metals in the past, which I hadn't done prior, with good success. This is not to say that the first weld is going to be perfect, or even that that alloy of bronze is even weldable, but that I know the process and if I fail at first and end up brazing or soldering that I have the equipment and know how to do it and the end product will be finished professionally. Now after you have achieved a level of professionalism in your work, coming up with original new ideas is the tough part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 nah - nothing is "perfect" but to try and define art work, p[articularly in these terms would be a bit counter productive in my oppinion, it depends on what you mean by perfect - thats a very difficult thing to define - as good as is possible for the individual to achieve, or measured by the best thats been done in that field in the whole of mankind throughout history? easier to define in a engineering manufacturing sense in terms of tolerances and build quality and how well something works for a specific job, but you cant do that with artwork, the "requirements" are so different and so varied. perfect, can certainly involve leaving 'imperfections' i reckon - which in turn would be a kind of perfection! striving for a sort of perfection in art is more to do with levels of, and quality of expression, and that is what your customer wants to buy (hopefully!), in which case their happiness with the piece is based on entirely different factors than when you making them something functional... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 imperfection is character. we each give our work character from our imperfections. Some call it style and we bring life to our work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Totally, exactly, perfect are big words that have little or no meaning in art or anything else we try to achieve.....2+2=4, that's as close as we're ever gonna get......I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Everybody has a different "let it go" point . . . figure out where yours is and get comfortable with it. Its the sort of thing you have to define for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 TOLERANCES You can't even machine perfection! Determine where your + and - are now and always strive for tighter tolerances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J W Bennett Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Nothing is ever perfect, If you think it is your only fooling yourself, The question is did you put your best into it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 and your best will vary :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangerdave Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Thanks for the replies. I am questioning the things I do with my limited (very limited) experience in metal. For that matter it goes for the things we do in life as well. RD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob S Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Doing strictly "artistic" work, doesn't really appeal to me. I do Mechanical Design, ... and operate on the principal that any fool can build a complex mechanism, to do a simple job. The "art" of Mechanical Design, ... is in building simple, elegant, but fully FUNCTIONAL tools and machines. . Did anyone tell you how much we like pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireCat Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I feel that the imperfections are part of what makes smithing so much diffrent than some store bought mass produced item that anybody can purchase. If you had your choice of having the same exact peice of art be it made of wood, metal, a painting that somebody else has, or you could have something that was unique,, one of a kind hand made no two items being the same....now you have something special. When somebody can look a something that was hand made and see the time,, energy,, and thought that go's into a peice i feel they appriciate it more. Remember we are all critics of ourselves...but it is that critisism that strives us to try to do better and inspires us to keep re-inventing ourselves as smiths and artists and to try new things and to challenge ourself to be better.......just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Another way to think about this is for you to decide if For your self :wot is the worst thing you will allow to leave your shop? And that may change as your skills develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Even if I absolutely LOVE something I've done, my eye will always be drawn to the smallest imperfection. Fortunately, most other people don't see it that way. You are almost always your own toughest critic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 try not yo over think it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 My friend Bill Printy once told me, " you gotta know when to stop Steve" . This was sound advice then and now for me. Sometimes I ignore it and continue with good or bad results. There will people (at an event) that think I should tweak here and there and actually I invite these comments sometimes. If the item is a stock item that I am happy with then I'm happy. If it is a one off issue then I make the customer be happy (or allow them to be happy ). Most people are happy what what I do 100%. there will be issues that I am in the R&D frame and then I seek feedback. This is not only how I learn but continue to develop things that people need. Sometimes people don't need until they see. Like a wise man once said, "measure with a mike, mark with a crayon, cut with an axe". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Why do you want something hand forged and not carved from a block using a 5+ axis CNC? I expect there to be some variability especially if I have to do a lot of something as my methods of work may change over time with experience making something---when I teach a simple S hook class I try to show them that there is a bunch of different ways just to do something so trivial as the counter bend on the end. I encourage them to use the method that works best for them *now*; but remember and perhaps switch to a different method as they get more skilled. So if I need to make a "production run" of something I will often make several more than needed and select the best ones for the job. The others often are handy to have as replacement parts for when something gets messed up---they often can be tweaked to become an "acceptable" one easier than fixing one that has been trashed in some way. (I'll generally figure out something to do with the castoffs someday which is how some ornamental work becomes trivets for example) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willis Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The hardest thing to learn IMHO is knowing when to stop working on the project. Like chyancarrek says you have to learn when to let go, call it done and move on. If its a comishned job you can always ask the client if their satisified. Beleive me, they will tell you if their not happy with the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Customers are often satisfied long before the smith is! Save for the ones that check out your scrolls with a micrometer and complain if they are a thousandth off. (best to avoid those types of commissions as they didn't really want hand work in the first place!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddDuck Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I always try to put myself in the customer's shoes. Would I buy it? If I was in the market for this item would it be of a quality that I thought I was getting good value for the money I am paying? This is something I am worrying about myself, I am working on several things that I have wanted to start selling, but I haven't yet gotten to the level of quality that I would feel that I was giving the buyer good value for the money. I won't sell them until I get to that point, because I don't want to put out something substandard. Selling to a higher standard is not a bad thing, because you will also build a reputation over time as someone who does good work, and your work may be in higher demand as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 what ever you see wrong next time do it differently after you go to the bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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