Steve Sells Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I would credit the source if I remembered who said it, but ... an Artistic en-devour is never completed, merely abandoned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I met a boat builder once who was an amazing craftsmen and artist. I asked him how he knew when he was done with a boat." When they come and take it away", he said. On that note I think there are as many variables to perfection as there are people trying to achieve it. Whats perfect for me, may not be perfect for you. Some say leaving an "intentional flaw" is the way to go.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Quilters will intentionally leave a flaw in their quilts....that is the fully hand made ones. They say that only GOD can make anything perfect. My wife used to belong to a quilting guild years back and was always telling me neat pieces of history about quilts. There are also meanings behind most all of the different quilt patterns. cool I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 thomas that is very cool, and respectful of many truths! a great stance to take i will think about that today - i really like it! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DClaville Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 who ever says or thinks that they can not get better /improve then they are lost and wrong, we can always get better tomorrow and should stive for it or we should stop doing what we are doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double_edge2 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks for the replies. I am questioning the things I do with my limited (very limited) experience in metal. For that matter it goes for the things we do in life as well. RD Fine to do so, .the think thing........ Don't let it stop you from doing stuff, if you haven't been making stuff long, you will get better, if you want to. The more you do the better you get ....normally. I just hack in, and see what happens. If I've got to sell one, I might have to make it a couple of times first, ....... It's half the fun I think..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yves Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Maybe we can always do better. Maybe. But not on a given object, not on a given piece. We have to let it be at one point. You cannot pound perfection in a piece of metal by hitting it till kingdom come. When you have satisfied function and you have given the best form you can, you can throw it away or give it to your customer. Will it be imperfect even if you decide to give it to the customer? Probably. Will it be flawed? That is another question. An imperfection is not necessarily a flaw. When a hook can fill its function, when you can hang something on it, the function is not flawed. And if you can hang on it the objects you aimed at hanging on it, the hook is somehow perfect. What would it mean for a hook to "better" receive a tool? When it comes to form, the discussion is more arduous. I was a weaver for a number of years. Like in forging, experience permits one to produce professionnal objects. Perfection, however, was a problem : when a client came to pick up a tablecloth one day, she said I was reselling an industrial piece of cloth because the sides of the cloth were perfect. There were none of the zigzags one makes in the first years because he does not throw the thread with the same weight all along the material. In this case perfection itself was not only an imperfection but (perceived as) a flaw. People who buy objects from artists expect to meet the artist in the piece they buy. A client who buys a handle for a garden gate from me is crazy. My handle is 25$ while he can get one from a chain store for 4$. The cheap one shot out of a machine would fill the function. What my client pays for, is something above the function. He pays for a relationship with someone. He wants to be able to say that "someone made this". There must be a mark he can point to to support what he claims. Style is our mark. Our objects have style. Are we happy with our mark? Or does our mark amount to a flaw? Can we proudly sell the piece or not? If we can sell it, our mark, then, is not an imperfection. It is our mark. Our mark can get better in the sense that we will be proud more often, in the sense that the style of the last object has more appeal than the style of the first object. We forge our style as we forge. Our mark itself is not an imperfection. And when it gets better, our mark, more people desire the objects we forge. But our mark is still there. Perfect? Never ever. It is something we cannot achieve. Is it something we can want? Is it something we know or can even recognise? Where do we find it? Who has ever seen it? What would it mean for a forged hook to be perfect? Forging perfection is not a practical plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 beautifully said Yves i like how you said that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Like Rex said, sometimes you just got to back off 3 paces and observe over a cup of coffee. Form, fit, function all play a part but you got to know when to quit. Somebody may be tickled pink with the way it is. I tell some folks if they want true duplication, hire a machinist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I think absolute terms have their place in art as in other things......Taken literally they are impossible to achieve. There's nothing I like to hear more than ; I love the new garden gate......It looks perfect in my garden, exactly what I was wanting.......You're TOTALLY awesome!.... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Everything I have made, I never seem to be totally happy with, but I am proud of it. Mistakes are part of the game and you want to try to make as few as posiable. When working on a project and a mistake happens I refer back to a old mentor words, " Make it Work " in other words you can't throw it away and just start over. Some of my best work have evolved from mistakes and changing directions to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 My Father once told me "Every engineering equation should have a dollar sign in one of the terms." I would add that there probably should be a term involving time as well. Is something "perfect" that is delivered long after the commissioning person has died? Or would a slightly less perfect version they could use and enjoy in their lifetime have been better in the greater scheme of things? I have seen a beginner knifemaker scale away his first blade until it has to be tossed as there is not enough left to grind. He was trying to forge perfection. If he had stopped earlier he would have been able to grind a good blade from it and be ready to try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 It is eay to compare products with others and to critique our own harshly. Often the difference is a small practiced skill that they learned along the road. Maybe there is a basic step before you rush to the end of a project, like tapering stock before forming a scroll. I know I get excited to finish sometimes and skip a middle step, only later regretting my actions. It sure feels good to start over and do all the steps the next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Even when your children are whining about not having eaten in a couple of days cause you are re-working something and haven't gotten paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Even when your children are whining about not having eaten in a couple of days cause you are re-working something and haven't gotten paid? Well that is taking it to an extreme. For the sake of discussion I didn't notice anyone talking about starving children in the thread, sorry if I missed that. I didn't mean to be inconsiderate if that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlissStreet Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Having gone through 2 careers now that are artistically inclined, I think the best approach is "This is good, the next will be better". Learning to appreciate what you have done, and can do is as important as looking forward to what you will learn and improve on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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