evfreek Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Hi. I am planning to try making some Brazeal style rounding hammers. I made the two matching top and bottom fullers, the punch and drift, and a pair of Hofi Woop tongs for holding the stock. Right now, I am looking for an inexpensive source of material. A friend has cut pieces of truck axle, but they are too short. Online metal suppliers have medium carbon round bar in stock, but it is kind of high ($63 for a piece). There are a couple sellers on EBay, but they are selling much more than I and a friend would need (50-100 lbs min.). I guess I could buy the steel and send it to Iron in the Hat or tailgating, but it would be nice to just buy a few blanks. The last time I was at the scrap store, they had 1.5" round mild steel drops, which spark tested as 1040. Unfortunately, I used these up, and they are gone. The only inexpensive small quantity vendor I have found is Harbor Freight. They have junk hammers on sale for $3.99. Unfortunately, these have a hole in the middle of the blank, and there is no room to place the punch. Some have mentioned getting the rounds for free. The only blacksmith supply that sells these at tailgate sales seems like MSMW, but the Atlantic flutagons are a little rich for my blood. Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Those "1.5" round mild steel drops" had better not be 1040 or there were quite mislabeled! You never quite come out and say what SIZE you need---will this be a 8 pound hammer or a 4 oz hammer? If it's not too big it should be possible to find old sledges that can be cut through the eye and make two hammers. But they would be a lot of work to get them into proper shape. I've bought a number of old RR spike hammers with long cylindrical ends on them that could be re-worked. (Top price I have paid lately was $7 for something that would make several hammers) Some of the heavy duty old digging bars are a nice medium carbon steel. I of course assume you have called around to all the small job shop machine shops asking about drops or scrap. I also assume that if truck axle is suitable you have contacted all the truck repair places and asked about buying a scrapped axle at scrap rate and so cut it to suit yourself. (Promise them a custom hammer and you may get a "truckload" for free!) Pity you are in so remote and rural of an area. I think I could rustle up an axle around here and we have about 3 people per square mile in our county; lots easier to find one in thickly settled areas!---smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Your best bet might be to call some smaller machine shops in your area and find out where they buy their small quantities of steel, or perhaps they will sell you the material. There are several suppliers around here that specialize in selling small pieces of steel, they tend to supply machine shops more than fabricators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 go to the auto yard and get another axel.....cut it longer next time. Use the shorts for smaller hammers or other tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Sit outside the fence at the local scrap yard and talk to the guys hauling stuff in Tell them what you need and what you are willing to pay The bay area of California should have sources of larger stock Here in Farming country the source would be ag maching parts Anhyrous bars are srping steel. the square bar that holds a disk together and some larger plow parts may be 1045 A D9 cat has a spring to tension the track that is larger in Dia than a beer can which is spring steel Rail cars have springs maybe 1" round Jack Pine forge who makes hammers buys stock from his local steel supplier but he buys the whole stick In your area there must be some large leaf springs. I have seen them 3/4" thick or better but not in my area as scrap but they would need to be upset or cut to width. Another source that would need squaring up would be the ball from RR rail Not sure how a hammer from mild steel would stand up when super quenched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrandow Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Have you tried Jackhammer bits? They are pretty much the right size, and extremely easy to get your hands on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 "The only inexpensive small quantity vendor I have found is Harbor Freight. They have junk hammers on sale for $3.99. Unfortunately, these have a hole in the middle of the blank, and there is no room to place the punch." I don't understand that comment...a blank with a premade hole should be ideal. Menards sells mexican made hammers cheap...the steel is good but the finish and handles suck. Buy the 3 lb double faced hammers and remake them as you see fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I have thought about that RT. I have abused several of those Menard's hammers considerably, They are way soft if left normalized, but hot steel is softer. I suspect water hardening the faces would work well on that steel, they are not hardened very deep, maybe 1/4 inch. EV, Where do you get you price for new, buying a full stick? Speedymetals will sell you smaller pieces, and I have hand cut annealed 4140 with a hacksaw, no problem - some sweat. High tension frame for the saw is a must though. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 A good junk hammer stock source is a fork lift service center (Clark or Kalmar). Get a discarded bent\broken fork. Once they are noted as defective they are scrapped and they make great hammer stock. In fact if you can get the big container forks as scrap you can make a decent anvil out of it. I am not certain of the metalurgy but I have made several hammers out of this scrap and they have both turned out fine. Cut to estimated size . Note, if you torch cut it you will have to trim off the burned ends. Anneal the stock overnight (ash bucket or lime) heat to above critical but not to yellow (use the tool steel rules), punch the eye. Normalize, Forge to desired shape and make certain to normalize between working on the ends. Heat it up and let it rest on the bench for a while between stages to relive stress. I heat treated like you would for W1. It seemed to work fine for the faces and no sign of cracks on the eye penetration. Polish to your liking. You can either use a custom set of tongs or lacking same, weld on a porter bar on the face side for the heavy forging on the peen side. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Come on guys! I posted along time ago of where to get material. Any suspension shop in the world that is working will have drops. When I got back from Europe and landed in the Central Valley of California, the first question I asked was where to get material. I didn't get any answers, so I went for a drive and found Helwig, a suspension shop about ten miles down the rode. I talked to the owners and told them who I was and that I was a blacksmith and that I was in need of some material to make tools. I got material from them for over three years for free, I did make them some things because I felt obligated, but they were glad to give me the material because it was only scrap. Tazmig 33 is still in that area and is able to get the same material, and Clinton has been to that area and has an idea of what I am talking about. I was getting 4140 drops from 2 inches round to 5/8 inches round with 1/8 inch increments in between. I was also in Oakland, California for three months in between going back to Europe where I was able to get all kinds of material for making tools at the scrap yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 How big a piece do you need? http://www.speedymetals.com/c-8231-hot-rolled.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Okay here is an outfit with 2 3/4" rounds by 2 1/8" long (about 3.5 pound blanks) priced at $3.19 each: http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-5260-8392-2-34-rd-1045-cold-finished-steel-2-18-long.aspx So they have 30 of these in stock (1045 steel) and if you ordered all 30 of them and chose the lowest shipping rate to my location you'd pay about $157.72 or just over $5 per blank which seems not too bad to me... though I can see that it will be hard to beat Brian's kind of deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 also Metal supermarkets sells to size. no Minimum order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I just bought 2 1/4" 4130 drops 90 cents a pound real good price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 have you tried the guy on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/1045-Steel-2-Round-X-4-Long-15-Pieces-Hot-Roll-NEW-/290378741042?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439bebf532 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Hi fellas. Thanks for all the suggestions. There are quite a few opportunities here. Thomas: the size I am looking for is for about a 2.5 lb hammer. So, something like 1.75 dia by 3.5" length, like in the Hammer's Blow article by the Brazeal's. The odd thing about large round shafting and large bolts is that even though they are in the mild steel scrap bin, they are often medium carbon steel. I think that shafts above a certain size are mostly that way. I wouldn't want to accidentally get leaded steel, and I cannot distinguish that in the field. Both the scrap yards in this area say that they don't sell tool steel, but whatever you get in the bins gets sold as mild. Oddly enough, one of them says he has a standing order from one of the other Iforgeiron members to save anvils which pass through the scrap stream. rthibeau: I was just trying to be funny, but that was kind of falling flat. I have made hammers out of those Harbor Freight mini-sledges. By the way, the steel is great. It sparks as 1070 and is heat treated just right (cutoff were notched and did not snap, will dent a RR track). But the way this started is that a friend suggested that I pick up my game a little bit. He noticed my modified Harbor Freight hammer, and showed me his nice Brazeal rounding hammer that he bought at a blacksmith conference auction. He suggested that I should try making a few. Brian: Thank you so much for your helpful replys. I do not get to Central California much. I do get to Oakland once a year or so. I checked all the suspension shops in our neighborhood, and they only do factory jobs, so they do not have drops. There are occasionally springs that are removed, but these are nearly new and they usually want money for those. I wouldn't blame them. There is a shop in Oakland which has drops and I intend to visit them. Looks like I need to get out a little more. I will try to sort through some of the local scrapper's bins, maybe with a portable grinder. He is blacksmith friendly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolano Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 My local steel supplier sells a fair amount of 1045 and 4140 polished shafts. They also have an entire bin full of drops(Generally a foot or less) that nobody but me buys so they give it to me at $.75 a pound. I've gotten $30 lengths of 4140 for about $7. There's also some re sulphurized 1144 in that bin though so caution is required as it's very difficult to distinguish 1144 from 4140 with just a file. If you have access to any kind of machining equipment though, it's night and day as 1144 machines MUCH better than 4140. So try a place that sells shafting. I'm making several hammers of 4140, its a great, strong, deep hardening material, although it's not the easiest thing to forge. Also, check any form of automotive scrap yard. I've gotten some LARGE diameter torsion springs from them that I've made hammers of. 1" 3/8 diameter with a flared hex head on the end. It's so strong that I left it normalized and the face is still undented from forging work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I picked up a spring from a dirt mover that was about 1.5" in diameter stock---haven't worked it yet as I'm waiting for MORE POWER. It was tossed aside when they were scrapping the dirt mover after the surplus auction at the local U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The guys at Alro metals Know what I use and they make sure it is marked for me on the rem net shelves. They are good about labeling everything with spray paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Evfreek, you are correct on the diameter of 1 3/4 inches for a 2 1/2 pound hammer, but you will need to use about four inches to end up with a 2 1/2 pounder. Depending on how many heats it takes, you will lose weight to scale. You will also lose weight to grinding. I would also suggest chamfering the ends before you start, witch will also add up. And then there is the weight of the plug you punch out. The loss from scale is probably the most surprising, and if you use gas, you can lose a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksb Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Cat track pin. (used) K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I have forged four hammers out of old tractor pins that a friend of mine had. We forged 2 two and a bit pound hammers out of three and five eitghs of 1 3/4. and two three and three quarter pound hammers out of 4.5 inches of 2 inch round... We matched them with a spark test to 1045... The hammers were water hardened and tempered to just harder than straw. We had to hot cut all the billets. Hot cutting two inch wasn't fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Yeah, Alec. Two inch stock is not for women and children! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Too right it ain't!! Those hammers took us two hours each. One of them is my profile pic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 we also had to cut them first ( hot ) making two billets took us a whole morning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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