candle cup tutorial

[FieryFurnace]

BP

Ok so what?.....this makes the fourth candle cup I've made, so now I'm qualified to teach! Sure!


Step number one! Select your material.

Step #1: Get some pipe or tube or whatever in the the world it's called. The stuff I'm using is about 7/8" INSIDE DIAMETER material and rather thin wall.


Step #2: Stuff a rag or a wad of paper in the end you are holding. This will keep cool air in the pipe and not allow the hot flames and gasses to move up the pipe, heating the end you are holding.


Step #3: Heat the end of the pipe and fuller it. If you want your candle cups to be identical, then get a metal ruler, put masking tape at the length you want your candle cup to be, and then hold this ruler near the metal while you are starting your fuller. Fuller BEHIND the measurement, not on the measurement that you want your cup to be. (A fuller is a scisor tool that makes a thin spot in metal. I used mine under the treadle hammer.)


(Pipe needs to be fullered at a bright red and can be worked down to a black heat. Rotate as you tap the fuller and use LIGHT blows or you will smash not fuller the pipe. White heat is TOO HOT!)
The result of the fuller looks like this, looking down the pipe! I used a 5/8" fuller!



Step #4: Now thin the edge of the candle cup using the horn tip. Keep the stock in line or level with the horn.



Step #5: To begin the candle cup flare, angle the pipe upward as pictured below!

Your hammer should be impacting the steel as pictured below!


Step #6: To make a rolled-top candle cup hammer as picture below using a glancing blow that hits the metal and comes back towards your chest. (I would not recommend using an untucked unbuttoned shirt as you see me in.) Continue to guide the metal around until the thin tip has bend rolled around and tucked under forming a nice "bead" around the candle cup lip.



Step #7: If you want a plain flared candle cup lip, skip step #6 and just dress the edges created in step number five.

Step #8: To creat a rippled top candle cup, skip step #6 and #7 and do the following.
After flaring the candle cup top, use scrolling tongs or tweezers to ripple the candle cup top. Grab the lip with the tongs and rotate downward. (Pictured below.) Move 180 degrees to the other side of the candle cup and do the same. Now rotate 90 degrees (or half way between the two ripples aleady formed,) and repeat. Move 180 degrees from the last ripple and do it again. You can leave it at that, or ripple between the four other ones. The key to keeping it uniform though is to move across the candle cup. Don't just start in one spot and go around.



And if you are fast like me......

Just kidding! Spead has nothing to do with it......


You will achieve this.......


Cut this off from the parent material in the mid point of the fuller. Drill the hole to size and tap or rivit onto your candle stand.

DO NOT QUENCH PIPE!

You should rarely quench metal, but never ever ever quench pipe or you might get a nice concentrated steam cannon in your face!

Hope this helps! Now go make some candle cups!

[Marksnagel]

Dave!

That was great! I was sitting here with my youngest daughter (23) trying to find more things to make that I am capable of making. This is great! Thank you so much for sharing with us.

Mark <><

[CurlyGeorge]

Nice BP, Dave. One suggestion to flare the end. Take the socket end of a tire iron and cut it off. weld the open end down to a hardy shaft or angle iron (for the vice), and it works a little better than the end of the horn. I use this method on all of my pipe candle holders and it works great for me. Give it a try. Nice looking candle cup, though. :)

[Frosty]

You're qualified Dave. When are you opening the school? Nice BP, good on ya.

The fuller is a good way to make peppers and cat tails too.

Frosty the Lucky.

[ianinsa]

Nice post,

Thanks for taking the time and effort to do it.

Ian

[beth]

thanks dave that was fab - will go and do some to your instructions:) how useful - thankyou!! :)

[Francis Trez Cole]

great work and pictures keep up the good work dave

[FieryFurnace]

You're qualified Dave. When are you opening the school? Nice BP, good on ya.

The fuller is a good way to make peppers and cat tails too.

Frosty the Lucky.

Thanks folks!
Well I don't know about opening a school. I did ask Mr. Mark Aspery if he needed an assistant for his JCC beginning level class. I half expected the computer to ask if I was really sure I wanted to send it. LOL He already had an assistant but was kind enough to say that he would have been happy to have me otherwise.

I'm wanting to get in as an assistant at JCC. I would love to be able to teach!

[Spears]

Thank you for the pictures and tutorial Dave,

I'm thinking I might be able to do that with the handles of one set of tongs anchored in a vice for tooling. Or something could be made rather easily. Looks like you're able to neck it down perfect even having done it less than ten times.

Thin walled tubing (un-plated)low carbon steel can be found or purchased pretty cheaply.

I was a bit in the dark on how I was going to go about trying to do that, but seeing those pictures make me believe I can get it pretty good in the first try. Thanks again, Spears.

[Frosty]

Thanks folks!
Well I don't know about opening a school. I did ask Mr. Mark Aspery if he needed an assistant for his JCC beginning level class. I half expected the computer to ask if I was really sure I wanted to send it. LOL He already had an assistant but was kind enough to say that he would have been happy to have me otherwise.

I'm wanting to get in as an assistant at JCC. I would love to be able to teach!

You would love to teach? Whatcha talkin about Dave, what do you think you just did? Recent questions, especially about making a fuller begs another BP.

You ARE teaching Dave, right now.


Frosty the Lucky. Edited June 24, 2011 by Frosty

[Frosty]

Thank you for the pictures and tutorial Dave,

I'm thinking I might be able to do that with the handles of one set of tongs anchored in a vice for tooling. Or something could be made rather easily. Looks like you're able to neck it down perfect even having done it less than ten times.

Thin walled tubing (un-plated)low carbon steel can be found or purchased pretty cheaply.

I was a bit in the dark on how I was going to go about trying to do that, but seeing those pictures make me believe I can get it pretty good in the first try. Thanks again, Spears.

There are better alternatives for a fuller than risking a pair of tongs, not that it wouldn't work in a fix mind you. There are already a number of threads and a BP about making a fast, easy spring fuller that fits in the hardy hole. I think either Grant Sarver or maybe Mark Aspery posted it some time ago. Making the spring fuller requires no more than bending some round stock and this is the spring fuller Dave used in his BP.

Black plumbing pipe is good, no need for anything special.

Frosty the Lucky.

[FieryFurnace]

I'm using the pipe I am just cause my steel supplier has it in scrap by the truck load in like six foot sections. 30 cents a pound!

The spring fuller is a piece of cake to make! I want a guilotine tool, but in the mean time, the "poor-man's" spring fuller does the job. I have a treadle hammer so I used that but as previously mentioned, weld a hardy shank on and get to work.

[Dustin Quade]

Great post man, i have been looking for an idea of what to make my cousin as a wedding gift, candle sticks might be the way to go.

[Forging Carver]

Great blue print!

[beammeupscotty]

It is worth pointing out that thicker walled pipe can be  used as well and though it takes a little longer to forge down, it is somewhat easier to keep nice and even than thinner walled tubing is.  3/4" black iron gas pipe is the correct I.D. for a candle cup too and lots of people have some left lying around after building their propane forge.  The same pipe and much the same technique is what I use to forge California Poppies.  

When making thicker walled candle cups I also keep on hand some home made tools that are the correct size to fit inside the pipe to help forge a round consistent bottom to the candle cup.  

[gote]

Thank you Dave very inspiring

[bigfootnampa]

I have sometimes added a bit of flux and continued fullering till I welded the stem. Not real important for this application, but useful when doing some types of projects.  I have also fullered down a longer length of pipe to create a bend.  It can be difficult to make bends of small radii in pipe... but fullered till it behaves more like rod, it is easy to make even very tight bends!  A piece of rod can be welded into the fullered tube and is easier to do than fullering all the way to close the tube completely... but perseverence will get it done as well!  I love working tube or pipe. I am intrigued by watching the way that it shifts smoothly from tube type performance toward rod type behavior as the fullering thickens the walls of the tube and thins the diameters!  Candle cups only scratch the surface of the possibilities for these techniques!  Spread your wings!  Lots of handle styles and architectural potential here!  

[Culver Creek Hunt Club]

Very useful thread for me. Thank you

One question. when fullering down to use a 1/4-20 tap do any of you use a gauge rod inserted into the opening so you know you reached the appropriate dimension? Or do you just go by looks? 

[beammeupscotty]

6 hours ago, Culver Creek Hunt Club said:

Very useful thread for me. Thank you

One question. when fullering down to use a 1/4-20 tap do any of you use a gauge rod inserted into the opening so you know you reached the appropriate dimension? Or do you just go by looks? 

I would fuller down to smaller than the required diameter, then drill, then tap.

[SJS]

I like 3/4" black iron pipe too, I've been tempted to try some Schedule 80 black pipe... If you get a decent sized piece threaded on both ends, then cut it in half so you can also use a cap on the threaded end, to prevent the chimney effect.  I also like to taper the sides of the candle cup a bit so that the tapered bases of most candles fit it better. Floppy candle cups don't sell that well...  I have been wanting to turn a mandrel with the correct taper to finish the cups to a very consistent shape that holds the candle real well.

[SReynolds]

I weld the end closed I hit with hammer. Thata way I don't encounter some problems you did.

[canada goose]

On February 20, 2016 at 5:46 PM, SJS said:

I like 3/4" black iron pipe too, I've been tempted to try some Schedule 80 black pipe... If you get a decent sized piece threaded on both ends, then cut it in half so you can also use a cap on the threaded end, to prevent the chimney effect.  I also like to taper the sides of the candle cup a bit so that the tapered bases of most candles fit it better. Floppy candle cups don't sell that well...  I have been wanting to turn a mandrel with the correct taper to finish the cups to a very consistent shape that holds the candle real well.

Given the relatively small amount of taper why not forge the taper on a piece of 1 inch?

[SJS]

I geek precision;-)  If I do it on a lathe its concentric, and in addition to the tapered seat, I want a slopped shoulder that I can forge out the rim of the candle cup on too...  Most things are doable, even with basic tools, if you have enough time, and perseverance. Of course I barely have the free time to forge one freehand, so its mostly just daydreaming. When I get the time to forge, it is generally for a specific commission, or making some of my standard items that sell. I dream about process... and tools.

[SReynolds]

There are several diameters of candles. If you make one exclusively, only that size will fit maybe 20% of the candles out there. You have to have candles available to fit YOUR holders. Some candles have a huge amount of taper and others almost none.

Most folks are not going to want to drip melted wax into the cup or shave the candle with a pocket knife. Just make them and have candles or tell 'em tuff-luck if a particular candle don't fit. They are not universal size unless you wanna become a tin smith and make them from sheet with a opening in the side you pinch shut to make fit.

[Culver Creek Hunt Club]

42 minutes ago, SReynolds said:

There are several diameters of candles. If you make one exclusively, only that size will fit maybe 20% of the candles out there. You have to have candles available to fit YOUR holders. Some candles have a huge amount of taper and others almost none.

Most folks are not going to want to drip melted wax into the cup or shave the candle with a pocket knife. Just make them and have candles or tell 'em tuff-luck if a particular candle don't fit. They are not universal size unless you wanna become a tin smith and make them from sheet with a opening in the side you pinch shut to make fit.

or he could provide a candle shaper to his cup taper.  I think that would be a good selling feature for him because the purchaser now can use any candle.  I would think the same mandrel to shape the cup would shape the shaper...lol