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I Forge Iron

No helping some peopleT


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There has been a young man (30's) stopping by the shop and showing interest,i let him work on several of his own projects.It came up that he is on a limited budget and cant afford any measuring tools.After some time i gave him a 0-1 and a 1-2 Starret mikes in cases ,a 6 inch German made dial caliper in a case,scale,thread gauges and a dial indicator with a mag base. Several weeks later i notice the tools in a plastic can in the back of his truck all rusted in several inches of water.
When i said WTF? His answer was,"it doesnt matter they were not digital so they were junk anyway". At that point he was thrown out and told to never return.What are people thinking? Also will point out that this is a full time machine and welding shop,we always found time to answer his questions and help when he needed it.Come to think of it,he never offered to pay for welding consumables or other small material. Guess i am rather dumb. Rant over. Lee from NYS land of taxes.
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So what are the chances you will be that generous again?

Not digital??? we are never far from an 18th century society, with no electricity and no running water .. we regress pretty quickly... and at this point it would be **** hard to find fresh water that doesn't come from a tap... and where would you find the way to heat it??

I have issues with seriously thoughtless people....

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We are ALL ignorant until someone steps forward and contributes to our education.

When you just hand someone something it may have no real value to them.It is up to you to instill value as the exchange takes place.Take the time to educate them.

I used to go thru this with the incoming soldiers of the "high tech" generation.They would moan and complain about having to learn map reading and land navigation skills when they had access to GPS systems and radios galore.
When one of them pushed the issue I would walk over,take his/her GPS and radio and remove the batteries and throw them in the bushes and remind him/her that no battery lasts forever and everything they carried was made by the lowest bidder. <_<

Anybody ever find that battery tree?I need some seeds I can plant in my yard.The ones I got at Wal-mart aren`t growing. :rolleyes:

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I think this is a respect issue. If he would have put them under the seat so they would stay dry and usable... I am sure he knew that a little rust would make them junk, digital or not.

I rather not deal with dead batteries either, even though verniers take me time to read since I don't use them every month.

I am cleaning up a water damaged vernier (I was given it already damaged) and the numbers and lines come off with the rust. I think it will be a locking slide caliper now.

Phil

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I prefer traditional measuring tools to digital, easier to use. We had one guy that hoarded the shop digital measuring tools because he couldn't do the math to use the others. This is like a cashier that can't count change if the electronic register doesn't tell them what it is.

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On behalf of all the guys like me who are in diligent search of knowledge and skill betterment, allow me to say thanks for giving time and effort, tools et al... many of us do appreciate the time the more skilled allow us, I have benefitted immeasureably from those like you, and vow to pay it forward,
thanks again.

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To paraphrase a line from the kid in the Bruce Willis movie The Sixth Sense;

"I see stupid people,they`re all around me.
They walk around and they don`t even know they`re stupid".

As another comic once said "You can`t fix stupid",but that shouldn`t keep you from trying every once in a while.You just may be surprised.

BTW-You DID take those waterlogged tools back didn`t you?
I would have taken them just so I could tack one up at eye level next to the door to remind me of the experience.

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Thanks for the replies ,however my generous days are over.It seems that if you didn't pay for the tools( for example,}with very few exceptions,no one will take care of them.Hate to say this ,but my grandfather was right when he said the younger generation today has no respect for anything,has no ethics,and doesnt know how to work.My wife says i am turning into another old knot head dutchman. So be it. Lee from NYS land of taxes

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People that do not respect good tools- that chaps my hide. No respect, come on man! I am sure you gave him a good ol NY tounge lashing huh. Gitoutahere (I think that is one word in NY)


Being from NY am sure the tongue lashing was something unprintable on this family web site
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I have been told this is the "Age of Entitlement" by one my friends who is guidance counselor at a high school. He wishes he were retired now, he absolutely hates his job. It has changed so much from 1978 when he got his masters degree in it and with only three more years till retirement he says he just can't quit now. What you described it not at all uncommon, that young man was entitled to use your shop, your equipment, to disrespect your old fashioned non-digital tools, he was entitled to better and you didn't give it to him. He was entitled to a better education and he didn't get it. People are just supposed to get more now than before, that's what they pay taxes for, they are entitled to what's coming to them. That was this young man's attitude. He was entitled to further his education at your expense, you were going to pay for his on the job training and then he was going to use it for his benefit not yours. He was entitled to this, that is American youth today. :D

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Being very precious about the tools I have collected over the years, I very rarely loan them out or give the spare/multiples away, however on the rare occasion that I do, they go to like minded friends.

I would be devastated if I found out that a tool I had carefully looked after had ended up as someones scrap!!

My sympathies.

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Suppose, then, that when school education is completed, and knowledge is acquired which abundantly qualifies its possessor to do well in life, no adequate use of it is made. A boy gives himself up to indolence or vice, neither securing a position of independence nor earnestly seeking it. The cases are rare in which a qualified and resolute youth fails to make his way in life, to the satisfaction and the joy of his friends, who have made sacrifices to enable him to do so. And yet how many failures there are, either because the opportunity for learning has been wasted in school indolence, or because indolence hinders the practical industrious use of what has been acquired! There is a cruel selfishness in the way in which indolent young men hang upon thrifty industrious parents, which is flagrantly out of harmony with the fifth commandment—a selfish substitution of the toil and substance of a parent for their own. Sometimes pride is the cause. Young men are unwilling to begin because they must begin so low. Not contented to climb, they would at once vault to a high rung of the commercial or social ladder. They demand at the beginning the large income and the good establishment which others have won, and which it would be the best for them to win by patient industry. They will not roast their game unless they can sit down to a superb banquet. And thus they hang upon their friends, and eat the bread of indolent dependence instead of the bread of honourable industry.


Rev. Heney Allon,"Opportunity Wasted,"The Quiver, Vol. XI (1876). :lol:
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I have been told this is the "Age of Entitlement" by one my friends who is guidance counselor at a high school. He wishes he were retired now, he absolutely hates his job. It has changed so much from 1978 when he got his masters degree in it and with only three more years till retirement he says he just can't quit now. What you described it not at all uncommon, that young man was entitled to use your shop, your equipment, to disrespect your old fashioned non-digital tools, he was entitled to better and you didn't give it to him. He was entitled to a better education and he didn't get it. People are just supposed to get more now than before, that's what they pay taxes for, they are entitled to what's coming to them. That was this young man's attitude. He was entitled to further his education at your expense, you were going to pay for his on the job training and then he was going to use it for his benefit not yours. He was entitled to this, that is American youth today. :D


I can tell you that I raised 3 that know better and don`t tolerate that kind of behavior any more than I do.
My daughter just became manager of her own brand new store down in Florida and she tells me that now that she is in a position to decide who gets a job and who advances that she is glad she was raised the way she was and sees to it that good behavior is rewarded and bad is not tolerated.
The first time gets an immediate,on the spot warning both verbally and in writing along with instructions as to why the behavior was unsatisfactory. The second time you are looking for a new job.
The only two things you are entitled to are;to do what you are told and to find a new job if you don`t want to do the first.Everything else must be earned.
She paid very close attention growing up. :)
My youngest boy never had anything handed to him either and doesn`t expect to get anything except by his own hard work.He keeps track of every favor done on his behalf and always repays his debts.
My oldest boy was a paratrooper and in the service during 9-11.He calls me and his brother and sister every election to make sure we all voted.He understands fully what a privilege that is and that he and I both paid the dues to allow that to happen.

As a Drill Sgt I saw the youth you talked about and I caused a major paradigm shift in their thinking.
I told them on day one that my primary mission was to "Cause them to make the jump from I to WE".
I also told them I fully understood that there were some among them that were incapable of making that jump and I made a solemn promise to every one in the formation that I would "Find those individuals,cause them to see they made a grave error in judgment by coming here and then put them on the bus and send them back where they came from because they have no place in my Army".
I always kept my promise.
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We are ALL ignorant until someone steps forward and contributes to our education.

When you just hand someone something it may have no real value to them.It is up to you to instill value as the exchange takes place.Take the time to educate them.

I used to go thru this with the incoming soldiers of the "high tech" generation.They would moan and complain about having to learn map reading and land navigation skills when they had access to GPS systems and radios galore.
When one of them pushed the issue I would walk over,take his/her GPS and radio and remove the batteries and throw them in the bushes and remind him/her that no battery lasts forever and everything they carried was made by the lowest bidder. <_<

Anybody ever find that battery tree?I need some seeds I can plant in my yard.The ones I got at Wal-mart aren`t growing. :rolleyes:


Battery tree? Don't be silly Bob, just look for a current bush. <sheesh>

Dad taught me to read a vernier when I was pretty young and I had to earn my first mics and calipers. Of course I'm pushing 60 so I'm a walking fossil. Have you ever given a kid a analogue watch and had to tell them what time it is?

Of course I wish we had a teen around to help me with this stupid computer!

Frosty the Lucky.
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well I'mright in the middle. I have a healthy respect for the not so electronic and digital way of doing things. I learn as much about the original ways of doing things as i can before i progress to a newer way.. for example my forge has an anvil and a hammer, but no power hammer. I've have not earner the right to get a power hammer. well that an I can't afford one yet. lol

at the same time I love my electronics and gadgets. I can live without them if required, but the way I see it.

know how to operate without a gps and radio, learn the compass and maps but keep a spare set of batteries for the gps. just like using a watch or a simple stick to find a basic direction in a survival situation. these kinds of thing escape most people my age or younger.

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I have just had to spend an hour at work sitting through a 'customer service' course being told that everyone who comes in is a 'customer' ( fancy new term for hospital patients) and as such I had to show respect to everyone regardless of race, gender, age and how they speak to me. I am told I have to stand there and say yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir.
I am old school and was taught that respect has to be earned - which did not go down too well with the lecturer :P

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