Building a Shop

[gking]

I just got the approval to build a shop for me and my brother-in-law to forge in. we were thinking of a 16' by 24' shed to give eash of us a 16' by 12' work aria.
is this a good size?
how high should i build the roof (i am 6'4" and brother 5'9")?

also i was thinking of calling my smithy Sinister Forge. (i am a Left-handed and Sinister is Latin for Left-handed.) has that been used?

thanks

[Mills]

That is a nice size for small projects, and there are a lot of smithys in the world that do a bunch in less. If you have options though bulid the largest you can with a 10' wall open rafter design. This allows you to maneuver the material that you cannot imagine ever working with. Will it be metal? insulation will help a lot. Ventilation everywhere so that you can catch a breeze and let out smoke. How much electricity available? any 3 phase? put 110V outlets about 6-8 feet and a 220V on a couple of walls. overhead doors are a must have and std garage doors aren't really up to the task. get bigger.

Now with all of that be said. What can you afford? That is gonna drive the selections. What do you plan to make? That will guide the priorities. The more generalized your plans are the more of every thing you will need.

If you like the double entendre of Sinister it IS your smithy. It could be an asset or a liability depending on how you approach the work. Its part of the first impression, so is that what you want people to perceive (negative, dark, eerie). If you are into Goth it may be the best name for you. If you specialize in torture/bondage devices you have made a wise selection as well. To try to spin that into a latin lesson may be a stretch for a name. It takes a bit away from your focus which is ironwork with the exceptions noted.

You owe me two cents. ;)

[pkrankow]

Standard ceilings are about 8 ft.

Grab your long handle striking sledge and add that to your reaching height, then add a foot and then add clearance for your lighting. You will not likely hit the ceiling while striking for your brother. This will probably be at least 14 ft.

Phil

[SoCal Dave]

I agree with the others about the height issue. When you are moving 10 foot sections of metal around, you have to be very careful when your lights are 8 ft high. I have a 20' X 24' shop and when I first used it, I thought I was in a mansion. Now, after adding shop toys, it's starting to get crowded. I need more room. So, go as big as you can!

[ThomasPowers]

Think about sliding walls AKA barn doors. High Peaked roof with ventilation cupola(s) Can you have the roof project beyond the walls for the shaded porch effect---also gives you a greater work area out of the rain.

My best suggestion is to look at traditional vernacular (local) architecture and try to do what they thought worked best for a couple of hundred years in that area!

[Frosty]

16'x24' is fine for small work, for instance, it'd be HUGE for a bladesmith but impossibly small for assembling railings and such.

My suggestions are: #1, 12' eaves minimum at the low wall. #2, Single pitch roof with the high and low walls on the 24' axis. #3 roll up doors are generally the least headache for large doors. #4 It's okay to get carried away with elec outlets and lights, just put the lights on a couple or more circuits so you can adjust the light level. #4 (this should've been one or two but) Good foundation and floor!

Okay, here's some reasoning behind my suggestions. Being 6'4" means you have a lot of reach swinging a hammer, as said striking with a sledge will eat up most if not all of 12' so that's a MINIMUM. Also figure 12' for the bottom chord of a truss. Trusses are wonderfully handy as storage shelves for long things like steel and THIS is another reason to have the 24' side on the pitch, not the end.

Why a single pitch roof? Simply put this is the EASIEST shape frame building to expand, just build another just like it on the high wall. Then your shop has doubled in area and instead of a single pitch roof it's now a standard looking peaked double pitch. Does 24' x 32' for actually LESS than the first half sound good? Here's another factor to consider, there's no need to build four walls for the addition and you can use the wood from the tall wall either for the addition or interior partitions, etc. Heck, the interior wall wouldn't even need to be removed if you wanted a separate area, say for clean work where a blacksmith shop's grit, soot and such grime would mess up work. This also means you'd have to plan for an expansion when you built the first structure. for instance, while it wouldn't be a bad thing to have a roll up door between a two big room shop it isn't necessary, so putting the roll ups in the end walls means a whole LOT less work expanding. Oh yeah, one roll up on each end wall means you can drive right through if it's convenient which is just SOOOOO much more convenient than backing a trailer load of steel in.

Why roll up doors? They interfere with the least amoung of ceiling space of any but "bifold hangar doors" I dearly LOVE bifold hangar doors but can't afford one by a long shot. A standard garage door tracks it's full height on tracks hanging from the ceiling so there's no point in putting lights, ceiling fans, vents, etc. there. Lastly, rolling doors have a reputation for being very suseptible to ground movement, snow or a kid's bicycle leaning on the wall. Then there's the futility of putting a window on a wall that'll get covered every time the door is opened, not that the door will always be open . . .Still.

Outlets and lights. You simply can NOT have too many . . . Well, if you really TRY I suppose you could put in too many though I don't think it'd pass inspection if you went nuts on the electrical. Basically it's good to have plenty of light, sure it's tradition to forge in a dim shop to see the color of the steel but a dark box under the forge will work nicely for times you need to see color precisely. On the other hand, having a consistently brightly lit shop will simply teach you to judge color in a bright shop and you can always turn off a few if necessary. Wall outlets, when have you heard anybody complain about having just too many places to plug things in?

Oh yeah, the last suggestion foundation and floor. As far as the floor goes lots of guys have different floors they are comfortable working on and the final decision is yours so do what you want. I LIKE concrete for the ease of moving heavy things, supporting things like my recently acquired power hammer without having to make another foundatoin and floor for it, and when I drop something small I can see it. . . When I've swept the floor that is. The big complaint about concrete is it's hard on feet, knees and backs. There are shoes that take care of that very well, ZCoils for one, they have a spring under the heal to absorb shock and now that they've enclosed the spring for work boots they aren't the trip hazard they used to be. Then there custom fitted boots like White's Boots, They are EXPENSIVE but it's almost impossible to hurt your feet, ankles, knees, or back in a pair of White's. I know, I have two pair, one pair is at least 25 years old and the other is a bit older but I had them overhauled at the time I bought my second pair. Even at the then $350.00 a pair I was happy to buy a second pair so I wouldn't have to go without when having them rebuilt.

On to the foundation, a lot has been said about foundations, just by me actually but there's been a lot of discussion so I'll only add a little. It's counter-intuitive but it's harder to make a good stable foundation under a light building than a heavy one. A heavy building, say a 3 story house puts lots of weight on the ground so seasonal freeze thaw or changing water tables or maybe earth tremors or high winds have to do a LOT more work to shift the building. A light building on the other hand isn't hard to move, comparitively, so make sure you check codes, ask questions of a masonry or foundation contractor. The foundation is the one point failure structure in a building, get it wrong and the whole thing might be a write off.

I sure hope this is more help than confusing. Please ask if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them even if I have to make stuff up.

Frosty the Lucky.

[gking]

Cost and ease of constructions will be the two deciding factors in building the shop. I was plannin on metal roofing as it seems to be the easiest.

I never thought about the roof being so high.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

First thing you need to do is talk with your building department. When my Dad,and I wanted to put up a shop we wanted a 10' ceiling, building dept said nope, and the peak could not be higher than the house which was 14'6". The shop had to be of similar construction as the house, yada, yada, yada. We ended up with a nice 24'x30' shop space, but it wasn't what we wanted originally.

If I was building a shop now with any type of building style, I would look at rammed earth, straw bale, or earth berm construction. I am looking into a subterranean shop on my property here in the desert to beat the heat. With the ones I mentioned you get low maintenance, outstanding thermal efficiency, spectacular sound deadening for neighbors, pretty much fireproof with shotcreted walls, and a very sturdy building. Rammed earth utilizes old tires (free) with packed dirt in them (free), just a bit labor intensive with the ramming operation, but the results are worth it.

I want to put my whole house underground, as well as the shop due to every year having a solid 3 months of 100+ degree days/nights. My current basement is nice year round. Warm in the winter, cool in the summer.

[HWHII]

I just finished putting up a new shop for myself inside peak height is 12'6".

[gking]

I just finished putting up a new shop for myself inside peak height is 12'6".

nice looking shop.
how much did it cost?
I was planing on wood walls to keep the heat down. Summer in South Louisiana is HOT.

[Grant]

Good morning all

HWHII -that is a very good looking building. Do you hold services there on the week ends? -grant

[ThomasPowers]

LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION; while those suggestions would work fine in the desert I think someone would have to wear scuba gear to work in that type of shop in southern Lousiana!

I just added a 20x30' extension to my shop building; cost about $1000 mostly for the trusses and the purlins. Of course I live in an area with only the state building inspector who doesn't care much about workshops in farming country.

I'm using 10' side wall, utility poles to support the trusses, (free from the electrical CoOp!) and hail damaged propanel for the walls and roof---actually doesn't look too bad even if I'm using 3 shades of blue.

One thing to think about is skylights; I have a couple of fiberglass panels in the roof so I don't *have* to have artificial lights on in the daytime.

Remember that lighting circuits and tool circuits should be *separate*! If you blow a breaker using a saw you *don't* want to be in the dark with it as well!

Handy to alternate plug circuits so you can use two heavy draw machines close together. On mine I plan 4plex boxes with one set of outlets on one circuit and the other on another *and* 220 outlets spaced along the walls too. (and of course a welder plug near the door so the leads can go outside for large items.)

[Mills]

Yep now that we know where you are, consider a lot of openings. Removable walls would be good. open air building with well insulated roof to keep the heat off you. A look around at traditional cajun structures will tell you a lot about good design except you need a taller ceiling.

[pkrankow]

You can raise the ceiling on one area for around the anvil if using trusses by framing an opening in, or you can use more traditional methods and have a peaked ceiling to get height.

Phil

[ThomasPowers]

a cupola right over the work area migh help draw air over you while you are working!

[Francis Trez Cole]

I am in Florida I have a wall that opens up 12' wide can back the truck in but there is enough roof between the door and the forge so you can see the color change in the metal as your heat it even on a bright summer day. it keeps a good breeze going most of the time

[Dragons lair]

Big BIGGER there is NO biggest. I haven't found anyone yet that hasn't run outta space. I started 7 yrs ago with a 18X32. 2 yrs ago added a 12X16 addition. Now back to tripping over stuff. If ya can add an outside area(leanto)
for non critical stuff. We don't think about lights till ya break a double 8 footer over your head. Best of luck.
Ken.

[Countryboy39067]

I'm in the process of building mine . It's a 15x20 lean-to added on to the back of my motorcycle shop. The roof incline is a 12ft to 8ft height difference. I have the option to widen it in the future if needed. The floor is packed red clay sand and I will soon be adding a two to three inch layer of pea gravel. I'm mounting my post vice, buffer and bench grinder on post instead of on the work bench. That should leave more room for rack space on the wall for supplies etc. Good luck and be sure to follow all building codes if there are any.......I'm so far out in the boonies that no one even hears my anvil ringing!!!! .....and I love it !! 

[HWHII]

nice looking shop.
how much did it cost?
I was planing on wood walls to keep the heat down. Summer in South Louisiana is HOT.

Thanks!

This building cost $16.00 a sq. ft. That will be complete. The actual cost of the building is $10.50 a sq. ft. I contracted it myself and called in past favors from some old ironworking buddies to help erect it. I have 312 man hours to put it up. I am lining the inside lenght of the building with T-11 siding also. I will post some pictures on a thread I started a few months ago on shop floors of the inside floor when I finish. It will be 1/2 concrete and 1/2 crushed stone 1/4 minus.

If anyone decides to build a building like this I would be happy to give advise. The first is to do your home work on suppliers. There are some sales practices out there that are worst than used car salesman.

Yes Glenn I hold service every morning now when I go out and open the doors and thank God for another day! :D