buying a stick welder

[pkrankow]

I am researching prior to purchase of a stick welder, and want to know what features are important. Specifically the DC function vs being an AC only machine.

It seems like Lincoln 225 AC machines show up on Craigslist for about $100 all the time, and stay listed for only a day or three. I can also purchase a brand sparkly new machine locally for about $270. The Lincoln ac/dc 225/125 machine is close to twice the money new and is not listed very often used.

Also I am a hobbyist, and really just need a machine for infrequent use. Much of what I want to do currently is building tools, but it will likely be used for other tasks.

I have been thinking about stick welding mainly because of price, but also because of how many different material choices can be welded, and the option of arc gouging.

Mig welding is also open for consideration, but are less frequently on Craigslist, and cost more new.

Purchasing a 125V machine has crossed my mind since some are down abut $100 new, and will not require a visit from the electrician to finalize installation of an outlet. Installation of an outlet will also cost a sub panel, but that will be required anyways when we remodel the kitchen and bathrooms.

Phil

[HWHII]

When buying a stick welder you really want a AC/DC machine If can find one with variable amperage control you are better off. The Miller Thunderbolt is a great hobbist machine and has this feature. The Lincoln 225 AC/DC has rough set taps for amperage control so you are stuck with the settings that are there. If you can find a old Lincoln 250/250 AC/DC machine you will be very happy. They are a great machine and bullet proof. The reason you want a AC/DC machine is most electodes run on DC reverse polarity. I hope this will help you with out getting into to much detail.

[ThomasPowers]

I have an old Lincoln tombstone AC welder; paid US$40 for it and it's probably 50 years old---copper wound!

For simple tool building it suites me fine. If I were to do fab work I would look into MIG

[Thomas Dean]

My vote is the Miller ThunderBolt AC/DC. It also give you capabilites for TIG welding although somewhat limited. You will not be able to air arc with any of the machines mentioned.

[Mills]

I highly recommend an ac/dc for versatility as well as better welding. I have the 225 Lincoln and it serves me well, I have never used the Miller equivalent so no comparison from me.

[pkrankow]

Apparently I have a misunderstanding about gouging. I was under the impression that compressed air was not required, and it was just the electrode chosen.

AC welders are good, and may be all that I need, but if I can get an AC/DC welder I will have much more capability.

I looked up the Miller Thunderbolt, and according to their website it is not a TIG capable machine. It does appear to be a more capable machine than the Lincoln AC/DC 225/125.

I am surprised there were no Hobart recommendations.

Phil

[HWHII]

Apparently I have a misunderstanding about gouging. I was under the impression that compressed air was not required, and it was just the electrode chosen.

AC welders are good, and may be all that I need, but if I can get an AC/DC welder I will have much more capability.

I looked up the Miller Thunderbolt, and according to their website it is not a TIG capable machine. It does appear to be a more capable machine than the Lincoln AC/DC 225/125.

I am surprised there were no Hobart recommendations.

Phil

The reason they do not list it as tig capable because, Miller consider it to be a strickly a SMAW (stick) welder and not the best choice for TIG. It does work fine for tig with a air cooled torch, bottle of argon and a flow meter. You also need to put it on straight polarity. You have no remote amperage control and you have to tap or scratch start the arc but it does work. This is how I learned to tig weld in the 70's. When I first touch a remote foot pedal I thought I was driving a sports car.

Hobart is owned and made by Miller or the parent company Illinois Tool Works.They mostly sell in catalogs now. and I am not sure they make a small SMAW welder any more. If you found a old used one it would surely severe you well.

[plain ol Bill]

I concur with others suggestions on the AC/DC combo machines. Just gives you a lot more versatility. Switch it to DC & reverse the polarity and you can use a TIG rig with it for steel & stainless work. I use mine frequently for that as well as stick work.
Hobart? I admit to being prejudice from an experience with one of them years ago and would not reccomend them to anyone personally.

[pkrankow]

So, I just put the tungsten electrode in the clamp and go for it?!

Phil

[JNewman]

Up till recently my only welder was an ac only lincoln welder. I used it to build a power hammer, made hundreds of tools with it and did quite a bit of paying work with it. I am sure that an ac/dc machine is much better but if all you can afford is the ac machine don't lose any sleep. In your position I would definately stay away from a Mig machine, a machine in the price range you are looking at will not give you the penetration you need making smithing tools.

One thing I would advise is if you buy a new machine buy it at a local welding supply, an independant if possible. If the machine ever needs any service or you need help a big box store will not be able to help you. Building a relationship with a welding supply shop is valuable they can often help you. If you ever get torches you will have to get the tanks from the welding supply anyways. If you are the guy that bought his welder at the big box store to save 5 bucks they may not be as helpful. The independant shop I deal with now seems to have a much more stable workforce than the Praxair outlet I used to deal with and for a small customer like me their gas fillup prices are much cheaper than the big suppliers.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

You would have to buy a TIG torch. High freq units are also available to add on. I prefer dedicated machines, as opposed to the TIG/MIG/ARC combo units.

I would also say to check local auctions, all but one of my welders came to me this way. 250 amp migs for $400 complete, 350 amp TIG $250,250 amp TIG $1,000, 650 amp MIG $900. Most of these also came with a pile of extras. Shop around since there is a lot of used equipment on the market now.

As for voltage, go with 220V as these will pull less amps than the same sized 110V unit. For example say a welder could run on the following voltages the max amperages would be something like this. 110V-100A, 220V-50A, 440V-25A. With an increase in voltage the amperage decreases for the same load. Most guys I know use dryer outlets, and pigtails for their welders, and air compressors. The amp draw is also at maximum output. If a welder pulls 100A at max, it will pull around 25A at 25% output.

Higher duty cycles give you more run time. A duty cycle is 10 minutes. 100% means continuous welding at maximum output. 50% will give you 5 minutes run-5 minutes rest, 25% 2min 30sec run-7min 30sec rest. This is at maximum outputs. Longer run time is possible at lower output loads.

Get the biggest welder you can afford. It is easier to run small rod in a big welder than trying to run big rod in a small welder. Get more than you think you need, same as an air compressor.

[Thomas Dean]

So, I just put the tungsten electrode in the clamp and go for it?!

Phil

Ok, from this post and a few others you have made, let me suggest something. Find a local community college or the like and attend a night class on welding. It would be money well spent and it would give you the chance to REALLY see first hand what different machines can do. Don't be offended by this cause none is intended. We all are willing to help, don't misunderstand that either. I just think you would benefit greatly and have fun as you learn first hand. This will give you a better understanding of what you NEED and can lead to an opportunity to purchase a piece of equipment, possibly from the school...they will update every couple of years or so.... Just some thoghts. And GOOD LUCK!

[pkrankow]

It sure looks like the Hobart stickmate and the miller thunderbolt are the same machine! The miller website has the accessory wheels pictured separate, and the picture looks like the Hobart paint job even. I was not aware that they are now the same company.

I plan to keep checking Craigslist and such, but the last several machines have been missing cables. I cannot locate a price for new cables so I am afraid to touch them.

I also read a Lincoln owners manual, maybe not in good detail, but piercing, gouging, and cutting can be done without compressed air, using regular rod or a carbon rod. It is not a pretty product that gets produced, but it is a neat ability.

Phil

[pkrankow]

Ok, from this post and a few others you have made, let me suggest something. Find a local community college or the like and attend a night class on welding. It would be money well spent and it would give you the chance to REALLY see first hand what different machines can do. Don't be offended by this cause none is intended. We all are willing to help, don't misunderstand that either. I just think you would benefit greatly and have fun as you learn first hand. This will give you a better understanding of what you NEED and can lead to an opportunity to purchase a piece of equipment, possibly from the school...they will update every couple of years or so.... Just some thoghts. And GOOD LUCK!

I have had an introduction course, but that was over 10 years ago and of very limited scope.

I am not offended, and agree that taking a proper course is in my best interest.

I know what I want to do for now. Having a machine I can do more with later is desirable though. You are right that this may be different than what I need or need to know.

Phil

[pkrankow]

BigGun, I understand the air compressor side of that analogy. I was running an impact on a pancake compressor last week. Do one bolt...wait for pressure... was still quicker in the end. I also understand duty cycle, and the desire to use 220V circuits.

I have not been to any equipment auctions. do you (or anybody else) have recommendations on where to find them?
Phil

[ThomasPowers]

Go to your local welding store and ask who's going out of business---check their bulletin board, check the auction ads in the paper, check at your local feed/implement place if you are rural. Check the yellow pages and call up auctioneers and ask to get on their mailing list.

Spring is the time for implement auctions---before planting and every one I've been to has had a lot of welding stuff---oh and ask your local welding store how much replacement leads would run you!

[evfreek]

Don't wait until you see something like this:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/tls/1661581858.html

Just get a decent name brand welder with enough power so that you can run at least 1/8 rods. Like Thomas says, anvils attract other anvils. Likewise, welders attract other welders, and you can be welding tools while you are waiting for the ultimate deal.

I just welded a 2" diameter raising stake for making large candle holder dishes. It was really worth the effort, and all sorts of jigs and one-of's will pop up if you have that welder. :D

[ArtWerkz]

Miller Syncrowave 200, I have one, it works awesome, no complaints. It's a Tig and a Stick machine. Worth checking out but may be a bit pricey for what your looking for.
If you are just doing light fab, The tombstone buzz box is a good deal, Lincoln.
The thunderbolt is not a bad machine either it just runs out of juice when higher amps are required.

[Bentiron1946]

I've had my Lincoln 225 since 1970 and have never regretted it, I also have a newer Lincoln wire machine(220V) with gas shield but always seem to return to my 225. I'm just more familiar with it. :P

[Dragons lair]

Keep eyes and ears open. Had an old airco AC gas portable 140 amp(I think)Disabled vet
friend kept asking for it. Told him if I can find a AC DC portable I would let him have the airco. A few weeks later local paper had a Lincoln G7 AC DC CC CV portable for $125.
Had a flat tire and a loose valve seat. Temp fix on the valve seat still working 3 yrs later. Added a spool gun and Hi freq. Now it does it all. Don't over look the older units.
I dumped a rebuilt Miller dialarc 250HF for a 30+ yr old Miller 330 A/BP stick/tig rig.
.5-460 amps The old ones were copper wound. Thing weighs almost 1000lbs. Stick with 220V
there are a couple of 110V migs 135s and 140s will do the job if you do yours. I have the Miller, an esab 250 migmaster and a hobart 180 and the portable.
The addiction is the same welding or smithin. HMMM bigger, better, faster, harder.
Ken

[pkrankow]

Next question: What size circuit should I pull to run a welder off of?

Phil

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

That will depend on the welder's amp draw. My big welders are on 100A circuits, my small 110V welders can run on a 30A.

I like to go oversize on the wiring when I am hooking things like welders, and air compressors up. If the spec calls out 12 ga, I put in 10ga, if it calls for 10ga I put in 8ga. Especially on longer runs. I look at it as cheap insurance. This provides less resistance, and keeps the wiring cooler. It also gives you some room to upgrade later if need be. Of course you still run the appropriate sized breaker. At the plants I have been in we usually went with a breaker that was 125% of rated load.

[pkrankow]

That will depend on the welder's amp draw. My big welders are on 100A circuits, my small 110V welders can run on a 30A.

I like to go oversize on the wiring when I am hooking things like welders, and air compressors up. If the spec calls out 12 ga, I put in 10ga, if it calls for 10ga I put in 8ga. Especially on longer runs. I look at it as cheap insurance. This provides less resistance, and keeps the wiring cooler. It also gives you some room to upgrade later if need be. Of course you still run the appropriate sized breaker. At the plants I have been in we usually went with a breaker that was 125% of rated load.

Let's say one of the 225A units. Everything seems to beat around the bush as to what circuit is required. I'll reread the owners manual for the Lincoln and look specifically for that information, but may have missed it the first go around.
Phil

Found it in the owners manual online, 50A slow blow FUSES, and not breakers. Guess I need to talk to my electrician about this.
Phil

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Hmmm, never heard having to use fuses. Every welder I have used/seen was hooked up to breakers. I can see the slow blow due to spiking during welding-stick a rod,initial arc starting,etc. That is why we went 125% on the breakers, to give a cushion for spikes.

[Dragons lair]

My 330 A/BP miller runs on a fuseabile disconnect(100 amp) Bear in mind the book numbers are for full load. In over 40yrs I have never run a welder at max power. The miller puts out 460 at full output(100 amps) So at 230 amps it only draws about 50 amps. My 180 hobart
runs on a long 20 amp line(230 volt)
Ken