Tim McCoy Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hi, I have acquired a 4" round bar (piece used as one of 4 legs for a huge stamping machine) that I want to heat treat one end of before setting it upright as my first anvil. I thought that I could build an "in the dirt forge", use charcoal (no coal here) and set the bar (that will be 26" long so it will weigh about 95#) on a set of home made rollers on the ground .... that puts the bar horizontal to the dirt forge and will be at fire height ... with the rollers I can turn the bar like it's a pig roasting and have the end, about 4-6", get heated evenly. Once at the right color I can then roll the bar to a place nearby with vermiculite in a hole and cover the end up still in a horizontal position and let it set overnight. I do not know what kind of steel it is ... mild steel and it rings with a sharp peal. Your thoughts?? Seems like a safe way to handle this with no special tools - the rollers can be easy to assemble. Oh, it cost me $0.25/# at the local scrap yard. Thanks ahead of time, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I do not know what kind of steel it is ... mild steel... So... do you know what it is or are you assuming it's a mild steel?Your thoughts?? I've never heated anything so big as that before so please forgive me if I'm just a greenhorn who doesn't know his place, but it sounds like a lot of unneccesary, fuel-expensive and potentially dangerous faff to me. Cold mild steel -- heck, even bloomery iron -- is harder than most steels are when hot so it will be more than sufficient an an anvil. Mount that chunk of iron somewhere solid, light a fire, grab a hammer and get to it! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McCoy Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 Matt87, Yeah, you're the new guy ... Ha-Ha ... I am sure it is mild steel just don't know the "number". So, you want me to just stand it on end and hit it ... okay, but I'll be getting back to ya if ... it will be about a week before I can get it cut to the right length and then we'll smack it around. I thought that perhaps heat treating it would make it just a tad bit better under the hammer. Anyway, I'll let you know what happens - I was interested in the process for heat treating such a heavy piece that is unwieldy and won't fit on a forge table. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 So we're talking about a piece of bar here 4" x 26". That should weigh about 39.79 KG. Steel gets unwieldy to heat treat when we talk in tons, not Lbs or KGs. Do we want to harden it or soften it, if you take it to red and place it in vermiculite that will anneal it, (real soft). Just trying to figure out what you are trying to achieve here, as normally an anvil face is hard. We are all here to help, fill us in on the details. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You may want to heat up some 2 inch bar stock as a test piece then multiple your fuel, fire, effort, and everything else by a factor of 4 (volume difference from 2 inch to 4 inch). Even then it does not scale up in a linear fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belargehair Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I agree with Forgemaster. The process you described sounds like you are trying to anneal (soften) mild steel. If it is mild steel annealing/hardening procedures will have little effect. a spark test may help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Just stick one end in the ground and use it as an anvil. They dont usually use caerbon steel for legs for a table. It may get dents and the edges may flare a bit..Dressing them and working on hammer control are both good things to do....Have fun and learn what it will teach you while you save and hunt for an anvil.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hello Tim, Just wanted to comment here. I work in a factory that has some and many more giant stamping presses and anytime a piece of steel is put in service not necessarily containing wear conditions it is most likely a low carbon ASTM A36 structural grade. Very weldable, decently formable, but not so easily hardened. Without having the carbon content already there, it would be very difficult to input a significant amount of carbon even if someone gave you two five gallon buckets of Kasenit hardening compound. The amount of work it would take with a home setup far exceeds any significant result beyond the use "as is" that the others and myself would suggest. I made my anvil out of hot rolled low carbon steel 3"x4" stock and a professional heat treat factory carborized it using gas in a furnace for 20 hours just to achieve a 1/8" case. There is nothing wrong with trying things because we don't learn much by doing things right. We make mistakes to learn more often than ever. I just wouldn't want someone to waste a terrible amount of time for little to no results. However, that piece of steel you have will make a beautiful anvil just as is! It will be easy to dress after it gets some dents too!! Have fun with it. Spears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 If you really want a harder surface, lay down some manganese steel hardfacing rods on there and dress it up, it will also work harden in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Show us a photo of a spark test like they do on bladeforum. Someone should be able to interpret it for you If it is mild steel (likely), it is not worth heat treating. These post anvils will eventually mushroom, but once you start hitting with that kind of power, you will have another solution available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McCoy Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Everyone, Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions - After rereading my post I realized I did present it as an annealing process. Meant to use a hardening process. My mistake. After further reading and studying your comments, I can see that just getting it stood up and hitting it will work fine. It's exciting to finally have something heavy to hit. As you may remember, wanting to "do it right" can get in the way of moving forward sometimes, especially for us newbies not wanting to repeat unecessary mistakes. That being considered, I really was interested in finding a way to handle a heavy piece in the back yard without a helper - primitive so to speak. Sometimes the effort to think things through, with helpers like you, helps to clarify which way to go. No photos just yet, but soon. Thanks again for all the input/support. Hammer on! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Actually "primitive" would have 5 or six folks around the forge it's only *modern* when we want to do it alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Hey Tim, Whereabouts in Vegas are you? I get into Vegas quite a bit, even though I am not currently working there - company relocated to LaVerkin UT, uggggh. If ya need a hand with a project, I may be able to help ya out. I am a machinist, and fabricator with lots of tools, or should I say toys To test the leg I would get an Oxy Acet torch, and heat part of an edge red hot then quench with water. File test it to see if it gets hard. If yes, then proceed. If not, a lot of time ,and effort saved. Hardening it up some would make it last longer. Another option would be to hardface the top. Too bad you were not here for the high schools bonfire, it would have heated that up right nice, then let the fire dept quench it with their truck :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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