2K_Kid Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hit It Red As a total new guy with very little hammer control, I started reading the article above eager to learn some techniques to gain control. However, the more I read the more I felt disbelief. I'm not trying to imply anything negative about the auther, but I'll be amazed if someone can take a piece of iron that isn't glowing and hit it with the hammer hard enough and often enough to make it glow red. Is this guy pulling my leg or can an experienced smith really do that? I've watched youtube videos of power hammers and the glowing orange iron cools down while the hammer is banging the heck outta it. Thanks, 2K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) technically yes, I have done it . But it was 1/4 inch round wire, don't know if I could with larger. Edited March 30, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 One of our members has done it. There was a previous thread if you search party trick.YouTube - Stone Cold to White Hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2K_Kid Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 Pretty amazing. I think the only thing I could get "white hot" would be my finger after I hit it with the hammer on the anvil lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I saw Tom Clark do this with a piece of 3/8" rd stock back in '05. He had excellent hammer control where as mine isn't that good. Yes it can be done.... I'm sure there are others that can do it. One thing for sure you will need to use the edge of the hammer face, less surface area. Look at Hofi's BP as how he strikes the material and that is how it should be done. Amazing to watch.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2K_Kid Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 @ Thomas Dean: What did you mean when you say:...Look at Hofi's BP as how he strikes the material and that is how it should be done. Amazing to watch.... Is the guy on the YouTube video Hofi? And what does "BP" stand for? Sorry for the ignorance. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archiphile Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 No the guy in the video is NOT Mr. Hofi. BP stands for BluePrints look at the top right hand corner of you screen and you will see a link to blueprints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 If we can just beat it hot why do we have a coal/gas forge? Pretty coool.. I think my energies would be better served working on the iron.. not heating it... good excercise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 If you were only interested in hammering 1/4" stock or so you wouldn't need a fire. You would however expend more energy getting it hot enough to forge than forging it. The fire puts energy into the iron so you don't have to use your arms instead. A good power hammer indeed keeps the steel hot by hammering it. A few years ago I got the privilege of meeting Bob Bergman and he graciously let me try out his Nazel 3B and 200lb Bradley Helve hammers. In both cases he only heated the stock 1 1/4" sq. to mid red and after a very short time under the hammer I needed to stop and let it cool from high yellow or it would've started splashing on me. It was a most excellent time. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) How is it heating it? Is it creating friction by restructuring the grain? I imagine that is work hardening the **** out of it because your constantly tightening the grain to create friction, right? Edited March 31, 2009 by steve sells foul language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Bly Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Yes, it is a sort of friction. More like what the article referred to as trying to compress the metal, heat is being generated. Hitting with a hammer is transferring energy. The act of the hammer hitting the metal and that hitting the anvil creates and transfers energy. The more energy created by force, the more heat that is generated. For example, clap your hands together really hard and make loud slapping sounds as you do so. You will most certainly notice that very soon your hands become warm. Maybe you've heard the expression, "paddle your bottom red"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Friction, plain and simple. Iron and steel are plastic under pressure. Hit it and it gets hot by rubbing molecules against each other. Hit it hard enough and it'll vaporize like a nuclear explosion. There's nothing magic about it. Doing it by hand is an accomplishment of timing, control and endurance but it ain't magic. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Nothing else need be said http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/party-trick-5595/ Dale Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 A few years ago when I was working for a boss we had a job to do on a crane at a local aluminium smelter here. The crane happened to be over what was called a friction welder. They were welding new ends of 100 dia mild steel onto the ends of their anode stems. 9 ends to each stem, approx 1000 stems in use, these ends were rewelded about every fortnight. To weld they held the 100 round in a large lathe chuck mounted horizontally and pressed the anode stem onto it with a press, while the chuck revolved at I guess 200 rpm. After about 2 minutes the 2 faces were at about 1400 degress, press a bit more and hey presto a welded joint not unlike a fire weld and all due to heat from friction of the particles rubbing together. With a decent hammer we can, if we get into it, have a job finish at a higher heat then when it came out of the furnace, and I'm talking say 100 to 150 mm square here. Easier to do with a larger stock size and a bigger hammer too. When steel is rolled, the rate of working can actually cause the billet to melt and reweld as the rolling progresses. We have picked up billets at the mill that have a crack (or a pipe as we call it) when I asked if they were reject I was told, "Oh no that crack will reweld when we roll it as the core will get above melting temp as its rolled." Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I was about one and a half years into blacksmithing when I gained the ability to re-heat a taper with the hammer. I must admit that the first time it happened to me I was a bit shocked to say the least. "Hey wait a second this metal is heating up!" I have found that a very loose grip, a med weight hammer, such as around 2 - 3 lbs, very rapid strikes and a snap of the wrist just before the hammer hits is what gave me the ability to do it. It is sort of like throwing a quick jab. You can deliver WAY more energy if you snap the fist back just before contact then by trying to push your way past the object. I have never brought up a bit of metal from cold to white hot as of yet, reminds me of the ancient compression ignition tubes that people used to, at still do, use. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 It is very useful to develop. As caleb says fast and snappy. Good on leaf making especially the stems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 2K if you want to experience the effect of work heating metal try this. Grab a wire coat hanger from your closet. With your hands close together grab the coat hanger between your thumbs and fore fingers, bend the wire and without letting go of it, rapidly bend the wire back and forth, pretty soon the wire will actually break. If you haven't already got heat blisters on your fingers you will be able to feel the heat generated in the broken ends of the wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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