Old "Technology "

[DSW]

The thread on obsolescence got me thinking about old building technology and how so many "new" ideas are just regurgitated ideas that have existed for ages, that modern people have forgotten and how so many simple ideas can benefit those of us who want to take a "simpler" or more "historic" route to doing things.

 

1st thing that comes to my mind is how they made the old industrial factory buildings back around 1900 or so. Big high ceilings with clerestory windows or copulas with operable windows that allows for light to come into the center of a building while allowing heat and smoke out. Also the large expanses of windows that allow for a limited need for electric lighting.

 

Ever notice that most older homes had tall ceilings, transom windows over the doors and double hung windows where you can open the upper sashes? Many also having a central copula  that again allowed light into a central stair well as well as allowing the stairwell to act as a natural chimney to help ventilate the home out thru the operable windows in the upper floors or copula. all for much the same reason the factories did.

 

I've got a few others, but I'll see what others have to offer 1st before adding those.

[Jacques]

Most of the old castles in europe are in ruins. The ones that are still standing were the ones that were build correctly. 

 

Proper drainage, roofs and gutters. The things you cannot see is the things that makes it last longer.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Castles, even build right didnt survive cannon.
As to old tech, rammed earth, adobe, cob, earthsheltering, green rooves, balloon framing (now called "advanced framing") electric cars, solor water heating, hydronic heated floores...

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Can't remember which brand it was, Acura or Lexus maybe, that was touting their electroluminescent dash......just like the one in my 1960 Chrysler Windsor.

I have a car book from the early 1900's that shows power door locks, hill holder clutches, and other "modern" features.

Old ways have a romance, but new technology has its advantages. I am a machinist by trade, and the advances in machine tools is amazing. The new machines can do jobs faster, and hold tenths (.0001") tolerances easily. What I miss is the style older items had, even mundane items like the fridge had style in the 50's. And don't get me started on the soulless CAD prints.....

Charles, a German friend of mine told me of a electrified carbon fiber mat that is put under flooring materials, or even the drywall that is the heater for the house. You can drill through it, and only that portion with the hole loses output. A much better system than heated water which eventually leaks at some point.

[Chinobi]

interlocking and permeable pavers are all the rage in my industry, but if you look back not to far that was the default.  before all the asphalt and concrete pavement took over and turned developed areas into instant flood generators.

[Charles R. Stevens]

There were a few years there that the "new" machine tools could't duplicate the tolerances that the old timers worked to. Glad to see that things are turning around.
Not saying that Im a fan of hydronic floors, just pointing out the fact that its pre roman tech.
Did you know that the electric trash truck replaced the horse drown dray in the cities on the east coast? Ive actually ridden in a 1890's aluminum bodied electric car...
How about multiple coil packs on a modle A? (Got bit by one, and I had already been working with DIS)

[John McPherson]

Electric cars, helped a friend work on a 1950's English Henny recently.

 

Heated floors for rich folks and outside wood burning heaters, even Korean hovels were built so that the floor was part of the flue system for an outside firebox.

 

And I believe that some ancient Persian artifacts were found to be electro-plated with gold and not solid. 

[Frank Turley]

I think Eric Sloane showed in one of his books a "non-spirit" level. The level had a weighted, pivoted pointer with its protractor attached to the side of the level board.

 

And was timber framing better than stick framing?

[DSW]

And was timber framing better than stick framing?

 

Many people don't realize how fire resistant heavy timber is. If I remember right from my building classes, a timber beam has a lot longer fire rating than a plain steel beam that will support the same weight load. Wood is a better insulator than steel and when burning, the timber actually insulates a lot of itself from the fire. Steel if not coated to insulate and protect it from fire, gets soft and sags under load, before the fire would consume enough of a wood beam to seriously compromise it's strength.

[ThomasPowers]

Castles: a lot of survival was "luck"

Tolerances in machining can be great nowadays; but how many folks still love the 100 year old guns with 100% machined components?

As for technologies: we sort of went crazy for a while as we could ignore a lot of factors with cheap energy and cheap labour. They were great years while they lasted! Now we are again looking at how taking those factors into account can *improve* things. I sure love my passive solar house built in the '70's even if I have to open and close shades and build a fire in the woodstove if we get a cloudy spell.

My kids would get tired of me wondering about the speed of travel nowadays: I've read some of the accounts of travelling west by oxcart---10 miles a day was *speeding*! 1 mile an hour was normal and time had to be allotted for grazing and watering the oxen. So every hour on a modern interstate would be a week by oxcart!

[Charles R. Stevens]

And not to forget the fancy folding/breakdown furniture for our mobile generation, such a new and novel concept...
Except that folding and breakdown furniture has a long, long history. Trestle tables, breakdown beds, chairs, desks...
And all the high tech moisture wicking, antimicrobrial, yada, yada fabrics...
Recent tests in Europe, with athletes found wool beat the "performance" fabrics. Kept the athletes cooler, doesn't support bacterial growth (funky smell and heat rash). In fact Vinteal competes very faberably with gortex, infact this all cotton, WWII fabric is still used in british exposure suits and antarctic tents.
As to steel beams, the ends have to be angled in masonry construction to keep them from pulling the walls in during a fire, 2xstock on edge used as fire ristant wear house flooring

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Agreed Thomas, my interest in firearms ends around 1950, just before things started to be made cheaper. Machines make AR-15's ,craftsmen made Mauser Broomhandles and Trapdoor Springfields.

[Frank Turley]

Reference oxen travel, Mr. Cooper (RIP) was a jack of all trades living in Agua Fria, New Mexico, about 5 miles from the Santa Fe plaza. He told me that there was formerly a spring and pool from which the town got its name, meaning cold water. Now there is a water tower now in its place. He related that once a year when New Mexico was a frontier, an ox train came with supplies from Chihuahua to Santa Fe. Their last stopping and camping place was at the spring where the men could bathe and refresh themselves. There was always a chance of meeting a chica the next day. It took them a good part of the next day to load up and get to the plaza.

[LawnJockey]

Agreed Thomas, my interest in firearms ends around 1950, just before things started to be made cheaper. Machines make AR-15's ,craftsmen made Mauser Broomhandles and Trapdoor Springfields.

My interest ends closer to 1911.

[DSW]

My interest ends closer to 1911.

 

 

Interesting how the military has gone back to the 1911 and the .45 ACP as well as shifting back to the 7.62 NATO round from the 5.56 in certain circumstances.

 

They have been finding the same things the US army did in the Philippines back around 1900.That large caliber bullets stop determined enemy's faster and more reliably than smaller faster bullets. The new .38's issued simply wouldn't stop drugged up Moros who intended to take out as many of the enemy as they could before dieing. The older 45 caliber Colts that were re issued had a better chance of stopping them. Same thing is happening against insurgents and suicide bombers. Small high velocity rounds may kill them, but not before they get close enough to take others with them. They found the same thing in 1904 with the Thompson - Lagarde tests when getting ready to develop the 1911 pistol.

[VaughnT]

Let's not forget bottled water.  Most folks think bottled water was some crazy fad invented in the 1980s, but it was actually the standard all the way up until the early 1900's when someone finally invented a way to purify water so it could be piped around cities.  Until then, the bottled-water industry was huge because it was the only way to be sure you were getting clean, safe water.

 

Once city water was purified and pipes were laid, public water fountains and kitchen sinks temporarily replaced the bottled water.... until someone came up with the idea because of its convenience and.... cleanliness.

[notownkid]

It is interesting that the 1911 Colt, & the 1903 Springfield are highly desired today and are still copied today (of course the Springfield was copied from the Mauser). In my case my interest stopped in 1963 when Winchester cheapened the Model 70. Up till that time most all High Power Competitive rifles were made on these actions after that they didn't hold up. Of course they are all made on AR designs now as the rifle fits people better out of the box.

Ox cart wise my Great uncle used to tell about working his horses all week 10 hrs. a day on the roads for the town. In mid Sept. he would take a Fri. off leave work a "little" early Thurs, hitch up his oxen to a cart and drive them over a couple mountains 25-30 miles and arrive at a Fair by mid day Fri. would Pull his oxen Fri. Sat. and Sun. He would leave Sun afternoon and walk them home and be at work Monday 7AM. .

The last few years he went I would load up the oxen in his cattle truck(he could no longer drive it) at 7am have him at the fair by 8:30 so he could talk with old friends, pull his oxen and have them all home by 8PM.(a lot more talking than pulling) He said at the end of our last trip together he enjoyed the old way better. He didn't make the next Sept. but I never drive that road I don't think of him walking his oxen to the fair. They were tough old birds.

[ThomasPowers]

The ones that made it old were the tough ones. My great grandmothers---the grannies----were scary tough when they were in their 90's; their husbands had died in their 50's...

Bottled water was originally sold as a luxury item in recent times---Perrier, Evian, etc and gradually became a commodity item. Funny thing if you examine tests of them tap water rates very high indeed against them! Remember when Perrier had that all natural benzene issue? My younger siblings demanded bottled water, my mother started refilling the empties from the tap and putting them back in the refrigerator....no complaints from the teenagers.

[njanvilman]

NY City tap water routinely beats most bottled water for purity and taste in blind tests.  It all come from reservoirs up in the Catskill mountains.  The water supply system that NYC built over the last 200 years is one of the reasons the city is what it is.

[EtownAndrew]

My current favorite deer hunting caliber is a 45-70. I think it may be 120 years old now. I use pure lead bullets with black powder pressures and velocities. It groups under 1" at 100 yards. I shot 3 deer this season and recovered all 3.

[jacobd]

My current favorite deer hunting caliber is a 45-70. I think it may be 120 years old now. I use pure lead bullets with black powder pressures and velocities. It groups under 1" at 100 yards. I shot 3 deer this season and recovered all 3.

I use a .270 or a 300 win mag. I'm getting a 45-70 as a pig gun. My uncle has one for pigs and likes it. I asked him when he was going to put a scope on it, he said "when you come up here to sight it in". He tells me it kicks like a mule. He's scared of scope bite from it. I'm around 260lbs, and he said it would throw me around. I'm a little nervous to shoot it haha.

[LawnJockey]

My taste for older tech goes beyond guns although I have an interest in them, particularly single shot rifles.  I have a couple of 45-70s, one is a rolling block.  I cast for them and my 32-40 CPA and also pistols.  I also have some Martinis.   I have a passion for older tools and wood boats.  In my misguided youth I loved bumming around in 3rd world countries admiring their simple solutions to mechanical things.  At one point I had a commercial fishing boat with a single cylinder Hicks engine in it.  I believe it was the last licensed commercial boat using a make "n" break engine in California, unless some other fool has tried it after me.

[GottMitUns]

Jacobd,

 

   Get your uncle to find some ammo that is listed as usable in a "trapdoor" Springfield rifle. It should mimic the lower pressures of the black powder loads of old. They will probably come with 405Gr flat nose bullets.  Or if you want to dig into a new "lost Art" hobby, take up loading for the "Black Powder Cartridge Rifle"!   Muzzle loading made it from around the 16th century until present without much of a gap,  reloading with smokeless gun powder (propellant) started around 1890 and is still going strong. But cramming black powder (Explosive) into a self contained brass casing and seating a lead bullet on top of it only ran from about 1863 to 1900, give or take a decade.

 

Russell 

[jacobd]

Sweet, I will probably just get a more affordable H&R in 45-70. I only have one muzzle loader, it's a wolf 50 cal. I may have shamed the traditionalists by putting a scope on it. My main pig gun is my tactical rifle. When I can find a farmer or rancher who wants pigs gone me and a couple friends can normally get 4-7ish hogs in a night if we play our cards right. We've never had a problem making sure the meat didn't go to waste either. I have lots of friends who will take the whole pig minus the innards. My grandfather gave me a repro cap and ball pistol that ive never even shot. I keep meaning to get some old wheel weights to make some balls but just never have.

[jacobd]

Any of y'all ever use these "modernized" muzzle loaders? I feel like it's a game of anticipation, waiting for the smoke to clear to see if you hit anything. I think anything in Texas would go down if hit with a 300+ grain hollow point tho. COM that is.