strikers

[Jacob s]

in this book,(The blacksmith : ironworker and farrier by Aldren watson) it said that if the peice was big enough, the blacksmith would have an assistant called a striker pound the metal while he held it still. i was wondering, would a workable peice ever be so large that it would require more than one striker, or dose size have anything to to whith that? i am also wondering why the blacksmith would have an assistant be doing the striking insteand of him/herself while the assistant held the bar in place?:confused::confused:

Edited January 18, 2009 by Drenched_in_flame

[NOS]

In most cases the smith would be holding the piece and striking alternating blows with a smaller hammer, while the striker hit with a larger hammer or sledge.
If the piece was big enough you could use more than one striker. I've seen old video footage of Very Large forge welds where there were many 4+ strikers involved. I've never seen a need for more than one striker on anything I have worked on personally.
hope that helps :)

Edited January 18, 2009 by NOS

[Rob Browne]

Why not the blacksmith as the striker and the assistant holding? Basically, the blacksmith was the skilled part of the team and the striker, often an apprentice, was the muscle.

[nashdude]

Complete newb observation, but I'd say it's because as a holder, the blacksmith can watch the striking in progress---adjust the forged item on the anvil as necessary, or call a halt to the striking, or what have you. When you're swinging a hammer, your attention is divided between detail and muscle, so I would imagine the smith as the holder would be about putting as much attention to detail as possible.

[HackKnives]

Doing old school pounded damascus, I have routinley have people do tandem with me.

Its odd. While in your head- If you said you could do the drawing twice as fast with double the striking....In reality is seems like magic the way it goes 5x's as fast.

I never do anything anyone would consider in the heavy catigory. It gives you an odd feeling to both share the same hot anvil. In short, it DOES work and I could see how someone could implement it a regular practice if thier regiment had the room.

It also shows your apprentice "how" and more importantly "WHY" you use different angles with the strikes.

You can have all sorts of conversations about it with someone new, but when you are literally on the same piece at the same time all of the variables dissolve.

The heat, the piece, the speed ect. They can FEEL you working through the piece and instantly get feedback for: if they are on target for draw, speed, and force for the given situation. When to reheat, when to let that last hit wait, when you HAVE to let that last hit wait. I could go on but its basically academic. You get my point.

#1- more muscle, leaves you fresh longer. Much more effecient.

#2-training, nothing beats hands on with an experienced safety net for someone to "feel" how it should go.

Just my .02

-Hack

[matt87]

Look for the videos at the Netherton works; they are on Youtubem and there are links on this forum to them (search). Amongst other things they show the manufacturing of a 7-ton single-arm anchor to Admiralty standards. If memory serves there are aboutb a dozen strikers working on that piece.

I've heard of smiths taking over as strikers from apprentices on occasion -- don't forget that a master smith may have been forging for decades and have muscles to suit, whereas an apprentice could be under the age of 10... In addition it would be a way to train the apprentice in the tasks the leader performs. E.g.:

Bruce Wilcock has extensive experience of using multiple srikers; he seems to have a hobby of forging anchors and anvils without a power hammer...

[TASMITH]

The place where I took my apprenticeship, we had what we referred to as helpers. Each Blacksmith had their own helper who worked in conjunction with him. One job the helper would perform on a regular basis was that of a striker. Many of the smaller jobs that we forged on the smaller hammers required finishing work on the anvil after rough forging under the power hammer down to near finished size and texture.One job we performed was forging guides for the rolling mills. These guides were made from flame cut plate steel but the ends of the guide had to be forge in order to fit in the profile of the rolls being used. The initial forging was done under the power hammer to get the guide down to rough thickness and profile. Then by use of a hand flatter and a stiker using a sledge hammer the blacksmith would finish the guide to the correct dimension. The Blacksmith would hold the tongs fastened to one end of the guide in one hand and place and move the flatter into the correct spot to be struck by the helper. Thus they would bring the guide down to the correct shape and size to fit the profile of the rolls, followed by a finish grinding with a hand held grinder.
This job was one of the final learning phases of the apprentice because it required good forging skills not only under the power hammer, but also the finishing work on the anvil. A good helper (striker) was invaluable to the Blacksmith and the senior helper was always assigned to the apprentice for this part of his training. A good helper is every bit as much a teacher to the apprentice as is the Blacksmith and they were held in high regard in our shop!

Terry

[nett]

Here's a youtube video of a group of industrial blacksmiths forge welding a large ring for Westinghouse in 1904. The ring is suspended by chain and four men are whacking it with all their might. Two of the men even climb on the ring to whack it better. I doubt there was one errant blow that entire shift

YouTube - Forge Welding - 1904

Edited January 18, 2009 by nett
yes

[jimbob]

The one guys shoes were smoking!

[chyancarrek]

When using a striker, the lead smith communicates to the striker everything he wants done through his own hammer blows - where to hit, how hard to hit at what angle ect. all the while the lead smith is moving the metal as needed with the tongs.

I've got fellow smiths I've worked with so many times that no matter who is striking or leading, we never exchange a word of direction - it's all done through the hammer and knowing each other's non-verbal signals.

This translates out to any of number of strikers needed for the job. When done properly, it sounds exactly like power hammer blows.

[Jose Gomez]

The Master.
YouTube - Master and Apprentice Striking Demonstration
YouTube - Tom Clark tribute Blacksmithing in the Czech Republic

[Glenn]

BP0038 Signals to the Striker

[wolf mtn]

Have to do a search for anvil chorus. I think its on here and explains a nummber of standard rules to universally learn so you can strike with anyone.

[wolf mtn]

Sorry, am tired. I usually start at last post and work forward. tonight started at first page, and made a reply. It semms Jose Gomez and Glenn have pretty well summed it up.

[irnsrgn]

most of the time in small rural shops, the lead smith held the piece in one hand and a handled auxilary anvil tool in his hammer hand (fuller, swage, hot cut, punch etc) as he was the one in charge and new exactly what and how he wanted things done. My grandfather was a lead smith in a RR shop in the early 1800's, forge welding broken RR car axles back together using the cup and point method to make the initial weld while in the fire. He had 2 strikers (usually journeyman smiths) on each end that had to time their blows to hit exactly at the same time to initially marry the two pieces together, one left handed and one right handed striker on each end.

In Thailand while forging 5 inch shafting (that's all we had) into something usable, I had 3 teams of 3 and sometimes 4 strikers working, one team held the piece on the anvil, one team was striking and one team was resting. You tire easily and quickly using an 8 or 10 pound sledge .

In old pictures you may see the lead smith with a ball pein or other hammer with a 3ft or longer handle tapping the work piece to signal the strikers where he wants them to hit and how hard.

Double striking is something that takes practice and teamwork to make it work.

Edited January 19, 2009 by irnsrgn

[natkova]

I allways wonder when i see , did striker sometimes actually  hit smith in head by accident, because when you look at it those blow are realy near smith's head.

[George N. M.]

Natkiva:  You may not have heard it and it may not translate well from English to Bosnian-Herzgovenian but there is a very old joke about a smith saying to a new striker, "When I nod my head, hit it." and the new striker follows the instruction literally.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[natkova]

Yes i heard that joke.

 

When i nod my head "hit her" smith meant on horseshoe but striker tought he was talking about head 

[ThomasPowers]

Good to know that joke is a world traveler!

[anvil]

Very rarely did a striker hit the master by accident... However... 

[Frosty]

That's a funny one from my own personal experience. Some years ago, Deb and I were wandering around the local Ren fair whatever it's called legally. It'd become a rather sad affair since the Anchorage Arts Council used it's pull to make sure it ran the fair or couldn't get permits. 

Anyway, we stop by to watch the "blacksmith" a fellow (call him Doug) I was acquainted with and a student of a . . . person to remain nameless. We chatted a bit and he asked if I'd like to show folks something and I said okay, sure. I was making a leaf coat hook, I'm veining it and he reaches across the anvil for some reason and I managed to only graze his arm with the hammer. 

I don't know if that experience should be called an accident or a stupid careless screw up. 

I GUESS I can see some newbie striker hitting the smith in the head but it sure wouldn't be the striker's fault. Even if it was deliberate.

Frosty The Lucky.