What size mig

[George N. M.]

Pigsticker, I'm writing this as someone who has only picked up electrical knowledge bit by bit over the years.  Some of the guys here are professional electricians or the near equivalent and are particularly touchy about the subject because they know how dangerous it is and how quickly a tyro can get into trouble and I mean serious, life changing (and not in a good way) or killing ways.  So, if you come across as blythly ignorant and casual about something we know can kill or maim we can respond in a way to try to get your attention to keep you from doing something bad and irrevocable. 

Also, we get a fair number of younger folks here who, as young folk will, over estimate their own abilities and under rate the serious consequences of a situation.  That is one reason why the military focuses recruiting efforts on young folk, they think they are bullet proof and bad things only happen to other people.  We oldsters have learned and gotten hurt the hard way.  Or, we may fear that you are a full adult but who is not aware of the dangers of what you are doing or what we are talking about.

This is one of the problems with the internet, it is difficult to assess someone's age, personality, intelligence, judgement, knowledge, etc. from just what they post.

Basically, we are trying to keep you out of trouble.

Yours,

George

[Pigsticker]

Finally, two non insulters in a row. Thanks guys. This is so extra to all the ridiculous stuff i did just to forge? If i knew anyone with a mig i can be nice twice a year for short spurts. Im really pretty sedentary. Imagine hearing working w cable would take an acdc degree. I coulda done doctor degreed up.

Thanks all

[Jimw3326]

I would suggest you keep an eye out for a truck with a welder on the back of it. Kindly ask if he is available to do some quick work and what he would charge per hour. Ask if he would be willing to fuse the ends of the cable and negotiate a fair price. The more pieces of cable you have, the cheaper each one will be. Other than that, search out a welding shop.

[Steve Sells]

It doesn't require an electrical license or degree to weld, but I happen to have a Masters and after about 40 years doing it will retire in another year.  Some of the things you suggest like running 2-120 volt lines to get 240 volts and just changing out the fuse at home is not remotely intelligent, or safe.  I am being blunt because subtle isn't getting through to you, and no one is trying to insult you, but you are not paying attention,

You dont have a welder so we suggest you go to a local welding supply house.  They can get you training on how to use the welders and suggest a unit that meets your needs, may even get you a used unit that can save you lots of money, like they did for me.  Local store also have support for long term issues that mail order or a big box store cant do

[Pigsticker]

57 minutes ago, Jimw3326 said:

I would suggest you keep an eye out for a truck with a welder on the back of it. Kindly ask if he is available to do some quick work and what he would charge per hour. Ask if he would be willing to fuse the ends of the cable and negotiate a fair price. The more pieces of cable you have, the cheaper each one will be. Other than that, search out a welding shop.

Im cool with your idea but haven't found one on a cable, electric truck, i asked my ac guy. If i can find the welder how much per tack. There are city guys around, how long will each tack cost and take to do? Will it cut cable to tack it?

Thanks much

 

See i thought id be more successful finding someone to do a fuse at a time. You just pay a welder by the hour regardless of job?

Thanks

[Jimw3326]

Just go with welding the end of the cable, saying tack is confusing the issue. Look up welding in your area and give them a call.

[Pigsticker]

So for welding the end of the cable, what should i expect to pay per hour and how many welds should they get in 1 hour. 1.5 and 2".

Thanks

Really appreciate the help

[JHCC]

Welding up the end of a cable won't take long at all, so how much it costs depends entirely on what the welder decides to ask. See if you can find someone who's willing to barter for something hand-forged.

[Daswulf]

If you find a welder to ask, tell them you have "x" number of "y" diameter cable sections "z" long, and that you would like the ends welded to keep them from fraying.  That will give them an understanding of what it would take them to do the job and give you a quote for a price.  They might ask you what alloy they are. 

 

[Pigsticker]

ThNk you for early reply. Are we probably looking at 15 each or25-$30. Thanks again

Is there a good / bad alloy type?

Tx

[JHCC]

Generally speaking, there's no such thing as a good or bad alloy, just good or bad applications. (For example, a cable requires an alloy with high tensile strength, which is why you never see cables made from cast iron.) The reason a welder might ask is that different alloys might require different techniques to get a solid weld. 

I'm guessing that you want to weld the ends of the cable to keep them from fraying while you forge weld them up into billets for a knife? If that's the case, the welds are going to be sacrificial, and you only need them to hold together long enough to set the welds, after which you'll be cutting the ends off. If that is the case, your welder might not need to bother about proper preheat and post-heat to prevent cracking in the heat affected zone (HAZ).  

If you do plan on having the welds be permanent rather than sacrificial, you are going to need to know what alloy the cable is, so that the welder can determine the best process for the welds. Your cable supplier should be able to tell you this; if you got it as scrap somewhere, it's anybody's guess. (Please note that there is no such thing as "normal cable" -- what is normal for one application could be totally abnormal for another.)

[Frosty]

Yes, galvanized steel is unsafe to weld and requires a respirator, it's also very unsafe to put in your forge do NOT use galvanized cable.

Welders usually charge by the job or linear inch of bead. The end of a cable will be a square inch job but not too much linear bead. 1.5" cable end would be roughly 8" of bead depending on the wire or rod size. If you use plain steel cable the end welds won't end up in the blade billet, mild steel wire or common steel welding rod is fine. 

I'm sorry you took a straight answer and legitimate question as being ugly. I'm a LOT more concerned with some 13 yro kid mis-using a suggestion of mine and maiming or killing themselves and others. Also, like YOU said yourself no kid wants to admit being 9 on a forum like this so can we trust if one tells us his Mother is 70? Being over-sensitive to an adult question is not a good sign. 

I have to look myself in the mirror every day so I'm not going to suggest you do any welding without taking a class. Welding classes almost always let a student bring personal projects to practice on. You can kill two birds with one stone without endangering anybody.

Have them welded up. 8" x 2 of bead per cable section on plain steel might run you $20 unless you talk to the welder like you've been talking to us in which case the price will probably go up till you go away.

Or you could make your billets like a blacksmith, wire wrap the cable before you cut it and forge weld starting at the ends. What I prefer is forge welding the cable where I want to cut it BEFORE cutting it. Then you heat and twist the sections to forge weld into billets. 

If honest concern for your safety and straight talk is too ugly for you please feel free to filter my posts on your end. I know I'm about done trying to keep you from doing yourself a mischief.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Daswulf]

As John stated, it isnt about good or bad alloy except in its intended use. As you previously stated you will be forge welding these into knife billets? Then the alloy doesn't matter as much for welding the ends. You could also tell the welder that it doesn't need to be pretty it just needs to hold the strands together. 

 

I couldn't guess what it would cost in your area, sorry. That is up to you to find and talk to a welder about. 

As mentioned the more you understand the process and can clearly convey what you need and intend to do with it the better. 

You might even want to cut some steel rod or rebar to have handles welded on to one end while they are welding. 

If it seems too pricy then it may be well worth looking into a welding course to learn about then purchase a welding machine yourself. 

Also as mentioned there Are other work arounds other than welding. 

Another option other than wire is to use hose clamps to keep the ends from fraying. Just know that the hose clamps will be consumables. 

[Pigsticker]

Thank you Daswulf. Stainless hd Hose clamps didnt seem to handle holding it before breaking last time. And wire wrap doesnt last ass long as the clamps Maybe i need to just get it hotter before i hit.  Ive got a new 2 burner forge coming. I am just making knife billets but i never said it. Im getting my knife badge this weekend from the troop and an extra smore. 

Thanks much for your help i like the handle pieces idea.is there a distance fron burner i could hold 1.5 and 2" cable if i  used it Gloveless. I alway hear some distance and people can hold it bare. Not tryiing to get tougher or anything

 

 

And go safety!

[Goods]

31 minutes ago, Pigsticker said:

Im getting my knife badge this weekend from the troop and an extra smore

Is this sarcasm, or did I miss something? (I can be slow on the uptake sometimes…)

 

[Pigsticker]

I have the body of a strong 9 yr  but im 74? Frosty said he met my mom. Never became an eagle Scout so trying to relivemy care free upper 60s. And if i was nine, it shouldnt change answers. And a 9 year can post as late as i do??

Several after 9 pm

Id post a pic but a sharp 9 yr old would send their neighbors pic

[Daswulf]

2 hours ago, Pigsticker said:

is there a distance fron burner i could hold 1.5 and 2" cable if i  used it Gloveless.

It may be different lengths in a gas forge, due to the dragons breath, vs. A solid fuel forge.

I use a solid fuel forge and when I have forged cable I just make the handle long enough to manage the piece. A gas forge might heat the handle a little further back, not sure. 

Just make sure it is not too thin for a comfortable hold and doesn't bend too easily with the weight on the end when heated up. 

[Pigsticker]

All good stuff. Thank you

Could i forgeweld the handle on or is that missing it?

[Goods]

Forge welding a handle on defeats the purpose. The handle is to make it easier to move the work piece around. If you have to move it around at forge welding temperature to put the handle on, you should already have a different solution. If if have good fitting tongs for 1-1/2” or 2” diameter cable and you comfortable working with those tongs, stick with that. If not, make good tongs for that size, weld a long handle on, or weld a stubby handle on that will fit in the size tongs you have. Lots of options, but don’t make it harder than it needs to be.

(Some times it’s fun doing things the hard way, but I don’t think this is the place for that! You don’t want you to loose control of you billet when it’s at forge welding temp, or ever really!)

Keep it fun,

David

[JHCC]

I think you misunderstood Das, Goods. I believe the suggestion was to MIG weld on a handle at the same time as welding up the ends.

[Pigsticker]

Can something happen to cable so it just cant be forge welded Even if its "loose". or shouldnt cable hot enough go together with a wood stick hammer? Its been soaked in kerosene and then i do a separate heating to burn it dry and im Comfortable its pretty clean as theres no weird or lingering fresh smoke when i cook out kero

Tx much

Thanks jhcc. Good spotting

[Daswulf]

John, Goods is not misunderstanding me. Before his post Pigsticker asked about the idea of forgewelding the handle on. Goods was responding to that. 

[Daswulf]

Pigsticker, if the cable is loose then it will want to fray at the ends with hammer blows even at forgewelding temps. . You could combat this with good forging technique but even with retwisting there will most likely be a bit more loss in material. It would be tricky and you would likely have to start just at the end getting it consolidated and twisting as you hammer. If you have problems using a wire wrap then you might not be at the level yet for the technique needed. Also it may be messier and add more inclusions you don't want. 

Do you have tongs to hold the stock as it is? 

Have you successfully welded cable yet? 

Sometimes we pay extra in the learning process. Either paying more for someone else to do a part, wasting fuel, time and materials in practicing or spending time or money learning new things to then go out and practice with the information then buy or build new tools we need for the trade. The Most expensive thing we can do is jump in uninformed and hurt ourselves, others or property.  No time spent researching and learning more we are interested in is wasted time. 

 

[JHCC]

2 hours ago, Daswulf said:

Pigsticker asked about the idea of forgewelding the handle on. Goods was responding to that. 

Ah, I missed that; thanks.

[Pigsticker]

Ive "made" cable about 8 times successfully. No clue why it worked. The cable i have is supposed to run as 1840 i think. Wjhen i hit my cable, it ends up as dust. Ifbi hit it 10 times, 10 piles o dust underneath and the cable is dissappearing. Ive got pretty strong hands i think i can twist thin wire well even at going faster than snails pace. Its why last year i had over 20 mig recommendations  to myboard from 12 folks.  ( no one asked or even mentioned amperage and i have 0% interest in learning a new skill)

Friendly people,  wouldnt it look good for my plugs usability if it charges my golf cart, 48v, i think 15 amp. Today is always the same

Thanks,

    Pigsticker

I have regular tongs that come in the 5 pack. I could forgeweld a new one with plans, but bought would be inevitability better. I just spent 80$ on a double burner forge ill need to fill with expensive powder so good tongs seem luxurious.

Many thanks and happy friday