Its official i'm a blacksmith ( just kidding finally got started)

[BillyBones]

Nice little guy there. 

I work nights as well except i love it. No way i would go back on days. Night shift, we do not have the suits walking around and can pretty much do what we want. My shop we work 4 dyas a week, 10 hour shifts. That gives me every friday off so a 3 day weekend every weekend. 

You can pick up a cheap little stick welder for about $60 now a days. No you wont be welding together battleships or sky scrapers but they work good enough to say tack your bars together for a forge weld or stacking a billet, welding the shanks onto hardy tools, etc. 

 

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

Yeah Billy , 4 10s as well. Just not a fan. I'll keep that in mind about a welder. 

During my apprenticeship many moons ago we had a basic welding course for a couple days, but I don't remember much, maybe I'll pick one up and see what the gray matter remembers

[Frosty]

For the suckers on the tentacles, Yes. You can make a punch but it's more difficult and trickier.

If you want to get real inventive take a look at early Cambrian critters from the Burgess shale. The Burgess is the only deposits I can think of off the top of my dented head but there are others, lots on China, 

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

Yes, a fully articulated giant steel Anomalocaris or Hallucigenia or even a Tully Monster!

GNM

[Frosty]

I'm more of an Anomalocaris fan but Hallucigenia is a good choice. My favorites are all the different trilobites found in the Burges shales. What's the one with 5 eyes?

A trilobite would be a perfect repousse project don't you think?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Scott NC]

14 hours ago, Frosty said:

What's the one with 5 eyes?

  Opabinia comes to mind, but it's not a trilobite.  It causes much confusion as to classification.....

[Frosty]

Opabinia, dat's the strange little critter! I knew what I was thinking of wasn't anything like a trilobite but the name escaped me. You have a WAY better memory than I do, Scott. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BillyBones]

We were doing 4 10's, about 2 months ago we cut back to 36 hour weeks. Hopefully now that the UAW has settled we can go back to 40, but with the overall economy it does not look like it though. Fortunately we are not laying off, some shops around here went that route. We will go to a 32 hour week before that happens.  My boss does not like laying people off so she, yes we have a female owner of a machine shop*, will do what ever she can to not do it. We all also agreed to the cuts as well. It is cliché to hear at a place "we are a family here" but it is actually true where i work.  

*just to clarify, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman owning a machine shop, it is just not very common.  

[gewoon ik]

That is good. They know what is making them money. Not the machines, but the people at the machines. And they also know that thoae specialist people are hard to find and train

To many shops are run by managers who only stay max 5 years. Otherwise they have to deal with their own created mess, but a new manager from managingschool is ready to reform and blame his predecessor, to do the same 3-4-max 5 years later. They don't know, there excell sheet is telling them, they can safe 0,50 cents so they do it.

It is less good, that it is affecting your job. Hope it will get better soon.

We in the EU are always hearing that in the US the economy is all doing better. But i think it is only the big multi milion compagnies

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mod30
Excessive quoting

[BillyBones]

Our economy is not that bad... yet. But our business outlook is not good for the next couple months. We are down about 20% sales. The stuff i make is made on what our customers expect their sales to be 3,4,6 months even sometimes over a year out. Dont sound that bad except our customers are those multi billion dollar companies. We make parts for everything from pick up truck to tractors to MRI machines to meat slicers to F-16's, we even make a part for a company that makes telegraph machines. If you have ever seen a solenoid, that little steel post that has the copper wire wrapped around it, i make that little steel post. So when the parts i make are not needed that generally means that it is going to be a rough time for a bit. What i do we are the first to feel a down turn, however we are also the first to reap the rewards when an upturn comes. 

Now why is it that way. Well i prefer not to say becuase that would get political and we all know "You never bring up politics nor religion in polite conversation." 

one of the reasons my boss also wants to keep people is becuase it is almost impossible to find new people. We have hired at least 6 people in the past 2 years to do what i do. 2 have stayed so far and one of them is because he came from another shop running the same machines. People do not want to do what i do any more. I run a screw machine. It is high speed high volume machining. It is dirty and you have to be able to do math. Mostly though, if the machine is running good parts you sit on your but and do nothing. It is not strenuous, it is not hard, and i get paid good money and have good benefits. But for some reason people now do not want to do it. I am 53 years old and i am one of the young guys in my shop. One of the reasons i love seeing young smiths here is becuase it lets me know there is still a spark in kids now that wants to work and make those little things that make the world go round. 

 

[gewoon ik]

Thanks. 

My previous company had a sistercompagny a machineshop. They had trouble finding people as well.

But new managment put an end to that shop in 2 years.

Lucky there are plenty machineshops in the area so those people didn't stay jobless for long.

[bluerooster]

I've found that (nowadays) machine shops aren't really interested in machinists anymore. They want computer programmers that can toss a chunk of stock in a box, close the door, insert a CD, or whatever the CAD file is on, and hit the "go" button.   But these guys have no clue how to chuck up a piece of steel, and cut a thread on it, or how to grind a tool bit, or even how to set the bit, They'd be totally lost running a manually operated machine. 

[BillyBones]

Blue you hit something there. You are right except that they do not even want programmers. Just some one who can hit the start button and make it work. Maybe at most change an offset or a tool but no real "machining" at all. The shop i work has a CNC department, it consists of 10 or 12 operators and 3 programmers. We call the operators button pushers becuase that is exactly what they do. They also do not want to learn machining. I was explaining to one of the guys in our CNC dept. about how i do  my job and he was just nope to complicated for me. 

I run a Davenport 5 spindle. The machines i run were built in the 70's and 80's in our shop. The oldest i have ever ran was built in 1932. They were developed around the turn of the century, so no computers. The only electronics is the motor and the button to turn it on. 

On the bright side though, i make more money than the button pushers.  

[gewoon ik]

Blue that is something not only in machining but more general.

They need button pushers in larger quantities and a small group of smart people. The last group lives in an computerized world detached from the rest of the world, only ease of manufacturer and easy to use the final product for the endconsumer.

So you get weird designs on stuff, hard to maintain. And the maintenance guy needs to be more and more skilled and smarter to fix those thinks. Or stuff gets made as throw-away.

I have worked many years in repair business and the button pushers are useless, because they can't or won't think. And the smart people are not hands on to see a problem and fix it, they want to replace.

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

well back to day work this past week so my sleep schedule is back to normal so i was able to attempt something new today. Something i saw on BBF you tube a hat hook. I will use it for my motorcycle helmet. As always it isnt perfect, but functional.

started with 1/4x1 flat stock used a guillotine tool to isolate the ends drew out the middle section. as i dont have a bending jig that was big enough for the bend i needed i tried just pounded it around a piece of pipe i got from the job site clamped in my post vise.  sideways was not the easiest way to do it and so it is not exact. Absolutely need a welder to  make some bending jigs for the vise. i picked up versa jig and guillotine tool from an online store (yesteryear forge) that will work fine for average hooks but with out a welder i cant think of a way with what i have to make bigger hooks more reliably.

the hook did end up developing cracks at the "cap"  and i dont know why any insight would be appreciated. as usual pics to follow and any and all feed back is welcomed

 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Looks pretty good to me, should hold your helmet just fine.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[rich_c]

That's a good idea for a helmet hook!

The cracks might be from forging at too cold of a temperature?  I'll defer to those with more experience and knowledge, hence the question mark.

[Frosty]

Looks pretty good from here. The cracks are likely from forging too cold unless there's something odd from the scrap stream in the stock.

My only suggestion would be to let the hook remain inline with the bolt plate an inch or so to reduce stress where it shoulders from the screw plate to the hook. All the weight and flex when you put a helmet on it will tend to concentrate at that transition and if the stock cracked when forging. 

It's not a will happen situation it's just something to think about in this kind of thing.

Nice job, like it.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I would hit the crack with a touch of weld from the wire MIG welder, then file it smooth.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

[BillyBones]

Is that box store steel? 

The reason i ask is that what i have gotten from the box store lately seems much more prone to cracking like that. 

I am assuming that box store steel is A36 and i am comparing to the A36 i have gotten from my supplier. 

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

Thanks guys, probably the too cold situation while forging as I was getting frustrated an bit so I kept hammering trying to get it right.

Frosty thanks for the heads up, I'll let the hook continue down before bending it back if I am understanding what you said.

As far as the steel used, I only use what I get from a local supplier or get on the jobsite who I assume also gets from a supplier but it's good to know about big box stores I'll keep that in mind.

And as far as the mig welder.. alas some type of welder is in the future but I don't own one of any kind atm.

[bluerooster]

Form follows function.  IOW; make something that works well, and that's the form it takes.

BillyBones,  I learned on a lathe built in the 1800's, 12' bed, 24" swing.  Ran off of a flat belt.  We had an electric motor to run it, the band saw, Drill press, and the shaper.  I could do anything needed for the shop on those equipment.  Did a lot of tapered shaft repair, mostly Model A Ford axles, and front spindles.  Build it up with weld, cut the taper on the lath, then cut the keyway with the shaper.  Later, we got a LeBlond with taper attachement, Got it used, but I thought I was in heaven. The LeBlond was from the 40's.  I had to make a major part for it though. Apparently, some time in it's life someone started the feed with the lead screw engaged. Destroyed the split nut on the lead screw.  But, I had a chunk of brass, and an old lathe to make a new split nut.   "New" lathe had a short 6 foot bed, with about 16" swing.  But it worked quite well for what we were doing.  Then years later they got an old Bridgeport vertical mill. 

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

played in the forge yesterday. made a couple items that i am happy with. a bottle opener with a can tab starter on the end and a hanging basket hook. the opener was made from 1/4x3/4 and the hook was 1/2 round.

All in all a successful day.

 

Now to the reason for my post today. It may be a stupid question but i ll ask anyway. Can i run a gas forge in the rain.  i dont have the space or adequate ventilation to keep the gas forge in the garage on rainy days. if i keep garage door open and the forge close to the opening  it will melt the vinyl garage door as the door would be to close above the forge ( less than 4 foot above). same problem with an easy up tent i believe would not want to find out the hard way that its not heat resistant and have the thing melt while forging. was just worried about rain hitting the gas forge while up at forging temps. any input would be appreciated.  i have picked up a makeshift coal forge from FB marketplace but i have not yet set it up or figured it out yet. that does have a top hood so  everything would be covered by metal sheeting. i could try and figure out that but right now my limited time i have on weekend i like to get right to it and get someting in the works

Thanks again all for you input and advice

[Frosty]

Looking pretty good Mr. Board. You might want to make the vertical section of the plant hanger longer and spread the screw holes some. Short as it is places a LOT of leverage against the screws with the long hanger arm and short screw arm. Make sense?

You can run a propane forge in the rain though you don't want it wet before you light it. Why not make a steel rain hood for it? 55gl drums are easy to come by and a reciprocating saw is a must have in any metal head's tool kit. Or a short section of corrugated roofing is easy to bend and the corrugations would let you direct the run off where you want it.

It'd be a perfect blacksmith project and you could use the ends of the drum to make a couple work tables you don't have to weep over if they rust out and die from exposure. Hmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

[Frosty]

I exceeded edit time so let's see if the os merges these.

I failed to mention NOT USING A CUTTING DISK on any drums or barrels! Even if you know what it was made to carry but no way of knowing what a second owner used it for. Old paint thinner, to drain old lawn mower gas into? A shower of sparks like a torch flame becomes as B A D as a cutting torch flame and oxygen jet.

Even though a reciprocating saw CAN strike sparks it can be mitigated by using ONLY SHARP blades and laying a little trail of oil on the cut line to lube the blade. Friction heat is what causes sparks in this situation so minimizing friction and coating the cuttings to prevent oxygen or flammable gas contact goes a long ways to preventing the spread of unwanted shrapnel.

Yes?

Frosty The Lucky.