Its official i'm a blacksmith ( just kidding finally got started)

[George N. M.]

'I'm in agreement with Frosty that there should be no problem running a propane forge in the rain.  Any drops that hit it will immediately evaporate.  However, while the roge is cold you will want to move it inside or cover it with a tarp to keep the liner dry.

Look back at Alexandr's postings.  Fairly recently he had a picture of a wood chimney cap shaped like an umbrella that he had done.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[gewoon ik]

The isolation above my gasforge is 1,5m above. Those are the cheap PUR plates. You feel the heat on the isolation, but you can hold your hand against it without any problems, so temp below 60°C.

Make a metal heatdeflector, keep a space between the garagedoor en the heatdeflector. Angle the deflector outwarts so that even hot air can escaoe to the outdoor.

 

[George N. M.]

I also agree with Gewoon.  A heat deflector sounds like a simple and elegant solution to protect the garage door.  A sheet of steel, aluminum, or even plywood suspended by cords or wires from hte edges of the garage door would work.  Just angle it up towards the outside so that the hot air will spill out to the rest of the world. 

I have a modified Sandia type propane forge which has a chimney rather than venting out the ends and if I put my hand over the chimney with my arm extended over my head it is warm/hot but I doubt it would melt a plastic bag.  The hot gases from the forge, particularly one that hs "dragon's breath because the exhaust is turbulent, mix with the surrounding atmosphere pretty quickly and the heat is diluted.  You could even do some experiments witha themometer to quantify how haot it gets at farious locations and distances above the forge.  Yes, I would protect the vinyl garage door because melting a hole in it is a bad and expensive to repair.

GNM

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

Thanks all for the ideas, i will experiment with them and figure out what works best for me maybe a mix of both ideas. Ill keep you all posted what i come up with.

Frosty i see your point now with the hook, i try this one out when spring time comes. Moving forward ill make mounting longer with screws more spead appart

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

back at it  now with the coal forge. made a few coal forge tools. kind of small but seem to go with the size of the forge and functional.

also finished a railspike steak flipper this was done in my propane forge a while back but figured id put it in as i am pleased with it.

Last but not least i tried my hand at some hand tools. 1/2" coils spring with the coal forge. a small ball punch and a small hand fuller. i hardened in some cooking oil and tempered to straw color. this was pretty cool for me i am pleased with these as well. i have no idea how they will hold up but wanted to try it.

[Goods]

Those coil spring tools should hold up just fine. I’ve made a couple small fullers just like that and they’ve been used pretty heavily with no issues. 
 

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

Look pretty good but watch the punch, I usually draw spring a little farther than straw for striking tools but spring steel is usually pretty forgiving in the heat treat and isn't very "chippy".

Frosty The Lucky.

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

hey all another 1st for me, well a few 1sts. made a hardy swage block (inspired by BBF). Used 1" square bar of 1018 steel i kept it 3 foot long till i got the bend close then cut it to the size of my anvil face. i watch the video multiple times before starting but as usual the steps left my brain for a while till i got frustrated and paused then remembered to  UPSET the corner to get it to sit flat on the anvil.

after that long process i  set out to do some 1/2 rounds and a 90* V. 1/4 3/8 1/2 5/8 half rounds  and then used 5/8 sq for the v. i made this in hope it will help me  making other things down the line. for instance want to make a few more  hand fullers and hope this will make it easier getting different sizes of those.

along with those 1sts this was the first time my anvil was warm to the touch all the way down to the base of it. i am guessing thats the first time  in decades this anvil was warm thru out i dont know why but that made me happy and also made me think about everything else that came to life on this anvil, only wish the mrs father was still around so i could ask him more about his work on it and more of the history of it.

[Frosty]

Lookes like it works from here. Maybe the step isn't clean on your anvil but that's what I use for a 90* swage, a 30 and or 60 are more useful to me. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

So, for my next under taking i want to turn some old stone carving chisels into some metal working tools. I have no idea where to start, do i just grind them into the shape i want (while cooling as i go), for do i reforge the all together?  There  is a few hand fulls of them so i could save a few bucks getting some use out of them. 

Suggestions welcomed. Thanks in advance.

[Frosty]

Pick one and turn it into test coupons and determine what you need to do to make the tools you wish.

Depending on who I talked to at the rental counter at the local Home Depot I buy worn jack hammer bits for $3 ea to, take the bucket, that was 6 bits and he was the manager. I haven't bought high-ish carbon high impact steel in a couple years.

The few bottom tools I've made from this stock I've been pretty conservative in the heat treat and tempered to dark straw. No chips, bends, etc. so far. (Not to jinx myself!)

Frosty The Lucky.

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

Thanks Frosty, sorry i kind of left things hanging here the past few post, i am at my frustration point in the process. I want to forge , i like forging , i have time to forge, i just dont know what to forge . Let me say i dont know what to forge that i am able to forge. i have seen lots of things on the internet that i want to try but most are above my talent level. the last few times i been out in the garage i have just feel like i am spinning my wheels.

i melted my air grate in my "fire pot", failed at making a coal shovel i was proud of , my lack of knowledge and talent is catching up to me.

i still cant find a blacksmithing class near by and the one i found i am on their mailing list for when they start up again so thats out of my control. went to my library to check out a book or two but they had none in stock. so asked another smith for recommendation on a book and purchased that one  (A Blacksmith's Craft).  Problem being i was never a book learner more of a hands on learner. read thru some posts on here for beginners and they have been somewhat helpful and encouraging knowing i am not alone but i still.

i dont know what the point of this post is other than to vent my frustration, sometime listening to myself the answers come to me and maybe thats what i am hoping for. i keep telling myself NO ONE has gotten 30 yrs experience in 9 months. this is a process and it takes time. But yeah.

thanks for reading all and thanks for the continued support form you all here.

ill keep trudging along , time takes time.

 

[ArmySoldier72]

BMTU - I am still in my beginning stages... I am the idea guy.. it annoys the **** out of my friends.   But I can not execute things for myself.  I think I lack creativity.  8-)

I think set yourself a small goal and go for it.. like I have 9 months to make Xmas gifts for the entire family (hooks, trivets, coat rack i.e. hooks on wood backer or metal backer, etc.)

 

have you checked out Black Bear Forge you tube? (There are others)

 

he has a playlist "Blacksmithing on a Budget"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_cK7UqQcYI&list=PLHta7NIJ9npbTNOR4JQW_IlDnCTxM2wV4&pp=iAQB

In it he takes $500 buys some items and makes some items, and then sells those items to pay back his initial investment. 

You could set yourself a goal of producing some items to pay for your hobby. 

 

He has another playlist "Blacksmithing for Beginners" which might give you some more ideas of items to make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi2vo75Zi_A&list=PLHta7NIJ9npYkM9Oh_2-6CBDjcej76F6s&pp=iAQB

ARMY

 

 

[George N. M.]

BMTU, we have all been there.  We were all beginners and we are all still learning.  I started out in 1978 much like you.  I had an old rivet forge and an anvil I had bought at an auction, some books from the library, some really nasty slaked (weathered) coal, and lots of my own mistakes to learn from.  I didn't meet another smith until 10-12 years later.

For projects, I suggest working on things that are simple and that you can use around the shop, e.g. a coal rake, racks for tools, and J and S hooks to hang things in your shop.  Try variations on the S and J hooks such as different finials and twists.  Once you feel you have mastered a simple object move on to something a bit more complicated.  

A lot of learning to be a blacksmith is hand and eye control, knowing where and how hard and at what angle you should hit a piece of hot steel to get the desired result takes time and a LOT of mistakes.  It is a lot like learning to use a video game controller or play a musical instrument.  Rather than making an X you can just practice on random pieces of steel different techniques, such as different twists, drawing out a thick bar to a thin one and then coiling it up into an open spiral,  turn shapes into different shapes, etc..  Also, get some modeling clay or Play Doh and work it in your hands to get a feel for how to change one shape to another.  You can also so something like making a clay bar and then using a small wooden hammer to change its shape.  If the clay gets too soft you can harden it up for awhile by chilling it.

Good luck and keep at it.  Post some of what you do here and let us comment.  I wish you were closer than 1800 miles and 26 hours away or I'd ask you to spend some time with me in my shop.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

If you can find or buy some railroad spikes you can make various things from them fairly cheaply and if you mess something up you don't loose much when you toss it out.

 

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

Thanks Army,

Yes i am familiar with BBF i think i have watched almost all of his videos. I think thats part of my problem.

His as well as most of the videos i watch make things look to easy.  Say 5 hooks in an hour.... for me its more like 1 perfect hook in 2 hours. While i am not making things to sell, i am getting frustrated cause i cant figure out why its taking me so long.

I like your idea of setting a goal for down the line more than a goal for today. Ill try and get myself into that mind set. Its hard for me. When everything lines up for me to get out into the forge i want to have something to show for my work and if i just end up with yet another hook i get discouraged. Again i know i should not , but it happens.

I think thats where the you tube has me messed up. They cut and edit the process to make it watchable, even if it is only a couple heats of drawing out or what ever it is. I like to know how much time it actually should take. Making a set of dividers in 35 min for video is great but how much time should i expect to be spending on it. Hours days weeks ...? Yeah there is no right answer but this is where i am frustrated.

Again thanks for the response

[George N. M.]

PS In response to  your reply to Army, don't try for speed, try for accuracy.  You will make a lot more mistakes if you try to do something as fast as you see in videos.  On some of them I think they are really doing multiple heats and making it look like one through editing, the steel cools too slowly.  Speed only comes with experience.  You just gradually get quicker as your muscle memory grows and reinforces.  You are learning.  Everything has a learning curve.  You don't expect a teen who just got their learner's permit to drive in the Le Mans or to play at Carnegie Hall soon after you start an instrument.  Why should blacksmithing be any different?

GNM

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

George, your response came up as i was typing mine, thanks. Yeah i guess i need to just keep making stuff so i get better at it, material isnt a problem luckily enough a got some from the job site before it got tossed and from a couple iron in the hat raffles from the local meets.

I have to suck it up and keep making the simple stuff. I get to exceited when i see things done easily,as i said, online.

Ill keep posting my progress and will keep trying 

[Goods]

10 minutes ago, BoardMoreThanUsual said:

if i just end up with yet another hook i get discouraged

Try not to look at it this way. Is it a better hook than the last? That should be something to focus on right now. Try to make each piece more refined than the last, then see what you can apply those skills to.
 

Also, plan ahead when you are doing something new. I probably spend as much time planning my step outside the forge at I do at the anvil. New items take time, especially when you’re new. Enjoy the process and focus on quality, everything else will come with time.

Don’t be too worried about trying something new. Just take the time to break out the individual steps in the process. Make a sketch of each step to see if you’re step order make sense, then follow the steps. I do this very often and end up doing a lot of volume calculations to make sure the dimensions come out right. It can be tedious at times, but I’ve been doing this for a few years now and still need to measure and calculate to get where it want on projects the require dimensional accuracy. If you steps didn’t work out, review your sketches. What went wrong and why? Things will go wrong, that how we learn.

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

Goodness BMTU! I'm going to make a couple suggestions that may fly in the face of some of the good advice given so far. 

Hmmm, I'm saying this again, twice in two days! ARGHHHH! I take exception to you saying you lack "TALENT", you lack skill. Talent is or isn't, like eye color. Skill on the other hand can be learned and is the combination of a little knowledge and a lot of practice. PERIOD!

You're making a couple bad decisions as to expectations too. First, forget about perfection, I don't care who the smith is if you look closely you'll find imperfections. Forget timing yourself and worse still competing against video demonstrations. Good grief do you compare yourself to soap opera "hunks" or TV heros? Stop trying to make complicated projects.

On the how to list. Every complex project is nothing but a series of simple pieces or processes joined together.  Believe it or not there really are only a few basic processes: drawing out, upsetting, bending, punching, cutting and joining. Welding, riveting, collaring, etc. being sub categories of joinery. Combining them yields your products say, a mortis and tenon joint is a punched and perhaps drifted hole, a bar drawn down to round for a specific length, heated, inserted in the mortis and peined. 3 basic processes to make one join. Do that half a dozen times and you have a grate, trivet, etc. Make 4 of those long and narrow, join them together and you have a door. etc.

Discounting measuring, cutting and such really basic skills you can dress an entire house with 4-5 basic processes. 

Mastering the craft is nowhere near as complicated you've convinced yourself. Honest, it's pretty simple.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Edited March 25 by Mod34
Edited for inappropriate language

[LarryFahnoe]

I think you're getting some sage advice BMTU, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were still feeling a bit overwhelmed. I class myself as a beginner and find that when I take classes that it is very easy for me to get overwhelmed and discouraged that my project is not coming out properly. I have found, and David (Goods) spelled it out a couple of posts back, that for my mind, I need to see step by step sketches because I get lost easily watching a demo and then going back to the forge to try it. David's suggestion to sketch the steps and calculations helps tremendously and is often what I end up doing during and after a class. The key it seems to me is to turn all these abstract concepts into muscular memories that you can then rely upon. Watching on youtube or reading a description, you still need to get it into a form that fits into your mind, and then ultimately your hands and eyes. Sketching may seem so old fashioned in the digital age, but is really a wonderful skill to develop for both learning and note taking. 

I hear the frustration, but don't give up, you'll get there just as George and others are encouraging you!

--Larry

[George N. M.]

Oh, and one more thing:  I keep two notebooks.  One is my demonstration notes.  If I go to a demo I sketch each step and write commentary beside the sketches so that I don't have to rely on my memeory when I get beack to my shop.  I've gone back to notes I took 25 years ago and been able to follow them.  The second is my bench book where I write down instructions for my future self.  It can be the steps to make X, measurements and calculations for Y, notes on quenching and tempering Z steel, and similar sorts of information which I think my future self will need and may have forgotten.  They both have their own value and I use them regularly.

Fortunately, I'm pretty good at sketching, probably from my years as a geologist and in the military making terrain sketches, maps, block diagrams, etc..  Not everyone has that practice.  If you have a hard time sketching try sketching one of your own projects as you make it.  Like the rest of blacksmithing you get better the more often you do it.

And, IMO, it is worth the journey.  Blacksmithing has been a part of my life for the last 46 years and it has made the good times better and has helped me through the bad times.  

GNM

[BillyBones]

BMTU, that thing about the videos and time i agree with. There are a couple of smiths on you tube that do not edit them out. I like "Black Metal Studio". While most videos show a set of tongs made in a 20 minute video, this guy took 8, 1 hour videos to show the process. Along the way he explained in detail, using a dry erase for visual aid, every thing he was doing. You got to see his mistakes, how he corrected them, etc. Nothing was edited out. He only has a handful of videos but i am in the opinion they are well worth watching. Also the videos are not "project" oriented but "process" oriented. 

Like Frosty also said, everything we do is just the same 8 basic skills in different combinations. Master those 8 skills and everything will come together. We have all been in your shoes at one point or another. I have been at this full time now for about 10 years. Not as a job but i am lucky enough that i can spend at least 20 hours a week in my shop. I have had many days where i stand and look at my anvil trying to decide what i want to do. Those are the days i light my fire, grab a piece of 3/8" round and make a few S hooks maybe. It A) gets me practice at fundamentals, B ) builds some of my inventory ( you will need that if you plan on selling your work) C) gets my thinking and creative juices flowing and after a couple i move on to something else. 

Do not set time limits on yourself. If you can make an S hook in 10 minutes great, if an hour great, if it takes you 10 days, great. If you have no deadline then who cares how long it takes you to do something. Take your time and focus on learning. If you are stumped on something to do try working on one of the skills you are weak on. Say forge welding, set your goal to be that you will weld 2 bars together today. If that goes smooth then try 4. You may not have made "something" but you made progress in skill building. 

I have only worked with another smith once. I have been to less demos than i have fingers on 1 hand. I have 1, not very good, blacksmithing book. I have never taken a class. Everything i have learned has been from youtube, this site, and by doing. Yes it is a more difficult road in learning but is far from impossible. 

And as a final note, if you are ever near Dayton Ohio you, or anyone else for that matter, are more than welcome to hit me up and come to my shop. I am working usually Fri-Sun. in there. 

Well i thought that was it until i read the last to replies, notes, yes take notes. Make it a habit. That is one of the things i am very weak on is writing stuff down and making those sketches. I even bought a book to make them in a few months bakc and have managed to make 1 sketch in it. 

[BoardMoreThanUsual]

wow lots more replies since i went out to the garage. i took a couple hours to do a couple basic hook i have not tried before. Again 1st runs are always not the best. Also did a small spiral stamp my mrs wanted to try it for her pottery . idk if it will work but she will give it a shot.

 

Frosty, Thanks managing my expectations is a weak point. I do get your point about comparing myself to what i watch. in "life" i preached to my kids as the were turning to adults was never compare yourself to what you see just compare yourself to yourself and hope to move forward. 

Larry,George. Drawing is not a strong suit and i did pick up a journal and some clay for the process. i have yet to use it but i will try and force myself to do so moving forward. them sitting on my work bench are not doing anyone any good.

Billy, i too enjoy the guy on BMS you tube, his tong videos and his multi tool to name a couple were very informative.

Again i think i just needed some reassurance that i wasnt spinning my wheels and wasting time and money. ALL you have helped along the way even if it was just commenting on any of the posts in this topic.

[Goods]

Here is a sample of my one of my sketches (I posted one the others day for a hatchet also):

I had not made a cleaver before and needed a starting point. The sketch doesn’t have to be artwork, just so you know the direction you’re going and what dimensions you’re aiming for.  I really help me make sure I’m not missing something. This was from my first attempt which was a failure, and I modified a couple dimensions for the 2nd which worked out good. For the final project I added a couple steps for forging out the pattern welded billet specific to keep the core material on the edge, but used much simpler notes and got out of order a little. Took a while to correct and it turned out, but I would have been time ahead if I followed more detailed steps…

The pictures you posted are not bad results. I’ve seen lower quality from some smiths with a lot more time at the anvil. Me, I’m very picky and take much more time with forging than most. It’s sounds like you’re more in my camp. Take the time you need to get the finish you want, speed will come later. (I’ve been working on this one cleaver since January…)

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

The learning curve can get to us, especially when breaking into a new craft. One of the reasons many of us hang out here is to lend folks a hand past that sort of thing.

I really like the drive hook, nicely done. Next time try making the shank of the hook longer and the hook a little smaller. That wide things hanging will put excess leverage against the drive point. A longer shank will put most of that force against the wall. And lastly if you bend the drive point a BIT sharper than 90* weight on the hook will want to push it deeper into the wall, post, etc. 

Nice job on the coil how does the impression in wet clay look?

The screw hanger is kind of straight out for my taste but it looks well enough made for a Frosty "good job."

I don't see anything lacking in your products, my least favorite is just a design experiment, keep it to compare with what you had in mind and to see how far you've come down the road. I have some really old UGH things I made. . . Somewhere.

Right now I think making drive hooks is a good exercise, you're already good enough at making one you shouldn't be disappointed and there is a world of variations you can apply. Say twisting the shank. Even if you use round stock you can flatten 4 sides slightly and twist it for a little fancy. Maybe put a fish tail or "reverse scroll" finial on the hook end so heavy coats aren't resting on a thin steel scroll. 

You can make large drive hooks, small ones, indoor, outdoor ones, etc. It's even marketable so you can defray the cost of smithing and gift friends and relatives galore.

Hmmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.