Jason L Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 As the title says, I'm trying to get back into smithing again after a several year hiatus and I've got a few questions. First, a little background on my situation... A few years ago I had an accident at work that crushed my arm. It was completely useless for almost a year but I kept working on it and finally got a lot of the use back with some limitations. First, I can't straighten it out anymore so I raised my anvil height to help accommodate that. It's my tong arm so my grip isn't the best and it wears out pretty easily. the only muscle I have left in that arm is in my forearm, my biceps are almost nonexistent now. Having said that, I kept all my smithing stuff with the hope that I'd be able to use it again one day and I think that day has finally come. I've fired up my forge a couple of times lately and while the work is slow, I am making progress. The only steel I have left to work with is two rusty and pitted leaf springs and one coil spring that came out of a wrecked truck. So far I have hammered out two knives from the coil spring, not for use or anything, I'm just using the springs to try and regain hammer control and get some practice in. My biggest problems right now are stamina and holding my work steady. I've got a bunch of hay rake tines that I'm going to make tong rings out of so I don't have to keep such a tight grip all the time. My confidence is building little by little and it's going to take some time. I do have a question about the steel I'm using. Mostly I'm using free found steels simply because I don't want to buy steel and then find out I won't be able to continue. This leads me to wonder, should I use steels that are harder to work to try and build myself back up or should I use something easier to forge and ease into it? Mild steel is much easier to hammer but is it possible that it will hinder my progress? The harder spring steel is tougher to move and might help build me up faster. I'm wondering if anyone else has been in such a situation and if they might have some advice to offer. I'm afraid that if I don't tread carefully, I'll cause more problems than I can solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3F Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 My thought is I wouldn't think softer steel would hinder your progress. Progress is progress. In fact, it may build your hammer control faster as you won't be striking so hard to move the steel. As far as holding the material more securely two thoughts come to mind. Tong clips for sure and a bike chain hold down. With those you could lower your anvil back down. The bike chain is just a chain secured to the far side of your anvil stand. Then drape the chain perpendicular toward you over the piece your working on, you make a stirrup shape and attach it to the end of the chain and use your foot to tighten the chain down while hammering. Not the best explanation, I can take a pic of mine later on and post it if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I agree with M3F. I would pick up some 1/4" hr square and make some "S" hooks. There is always a need for them. Then perhaps some 1/2" hr square and do some wall hangers or simple brackets. Good luck and keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Softer steels is a relative term. H13 is hard to hand forge, avoid that stuff for a while. On the other hand 4140/5160/10XX is fairly easy to move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I go along with the others, mild/soft steel is where to start. As with any physical adtivity you start easy and work up. You don't start running marathons inorder to train for you local 5k. Also, stay away from stainless steel, it tends to be harder. Re your loss of strength in your left arm (sorry to hear about it) there may be some thing to do to improve using tongs in that hand. First, longer reins on the tongs will help because they multiply the pressure of you grip. second, particularly if you are using a sold fuel forge you csn work at the end of s long bsr for much of the work and mke cutting it off the last or nearly last step so that you don't need to use tongs or snother "grsbber." Third they do make vise grips with a long extension between the jaws and the gripping mechanism. Fourth, anvil hold downs are you friends. "By hammer and hand all arts do stsnd." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anachronist58 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 12 hours ago, Jason L said: I've got a bunch of hay rake tines that I'm going to make tong rings out of so I don't have to keep such a tight grip all the time. My confidence is building little by little and it's going to take some time. Sounds like a good plan, and a great attitude. Devising implements to assist your grip, and as others have mentioned, long stock in place of tongs (which helps me a lot); chain and other types of "third hand" hold downs, are worthy companions at the anvil. Think about how to minimize shock loading your tong hand - that is what gets me the most... Building stamina and control does not call for heavy loads or large stock: I handed my friend a four ounce hammer the other day, just right to finesse that last detail... Keep on keeping on, Robert Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 Great advice. I don't have too much of a problem holding so far, I have motion in my arm I just can't straighten it all the way out. I have plans on making some hold downs although so far the tongs work fine with the only problem being the stamina. I'm pretty sure I'll have mild steel on hand for making candle holders, hinges, just random stuff. I don't want to make a lot of knives but for now I can reuse the steel since it's just flattened out and knife shaped. I just want to get the hammer control down before I start ruining bought steel lol. Thanks for the replies, I'll be taking the advice to heart and it gives me a couple of projects to work on in the meantime. How hard could it be to make a hold down lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 BTW, Jason, could you please put your general location in your profile please. We don't know if we are talking to someone in Ohio, Lapland, or Tasmania. Thanks. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 So sorry George. I haven't been back here in years and didn't even know that I hadn't put that up. I think it's fixed now though. Thank you for pointing that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Welcome back Jason, glad to see you again. Work is work forging anything will build strength, flexibility and control. Even if you're working copper wire on an old hammer head you'll make progress. Hand skills are perishable, use them or lose them. Nah, you don't "Lose" them, they just get rusty and rust dusting is years easier than learning in the first place. While not current you still have "muscle" memory, the pathways in your brain and nerves still exist, you only need to use them again to up the impulse capacity. Your eye knows what to expect with blows, if it doesn't occur your brain WILL adjust on a reflex level to make it so. It'll all come back and with it your arm, strength and the joy of making hot steel do your bidding. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Thanks for the encouragement Frosty. I remember you from quite a while back. Glad to see some familiar people. I have to admit I was a bit surprised at how well I did initially. I can only get better. I am quite rusty but so is my steel so it evens out. I'm thinking about making nails for a while. I have to build a small shop and I figure if I practice enough, not only will I gain experience and improve my skills but I might also be able to use some of the nails in the construction process. I might even go so far as to make the hinges for the door and we'll see what else I need that I might be able to make. Since I'm semi retired now I should have plenty of time to work on this and maybe even offset some of the cost by selling some things along the way. I'm excited to restart this journey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Welcome back from the Ozark mountains. I have found out tong clips will reduce the strain on my tong hand, worth their weight in gold. Another thing is to stay well hydrated while forging. My tong hand will lock up, if I don't drink enough liquid and have to make sure I start before getting thirsty. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Irondragon, I made the hydration mistake the day before yesterday. I took a cup of coffee out with me and got lost in the fire. I didn't realize how long I had been out there and when I came in I was a bit dehydrated. Not bad but enough to make me feel rough. I put my music on and completely forgot about everything but the task at hand. It's amazing how forging can turn an hour into four hours lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 A lot of creative people here that are more than happy to brainstorm up adaptive solutions to over come our shortcomings. not a fan of vice grips for forging, I have never got them to hold right. Welding on rods and good fitting tongs are my friends, as is calling the wife to hold the stock wile I sledge. Forge thralls are so useful. nothing like tendinitis in the the tong arm to make you smarter, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Hmmm, speaking of vise grips maybe tong "clips" made from a pair of modified vise grips? Maybe modify a light pair of vise grips to a small dia. rod / V bit, side jaw? I remember you too Jason and am happy to see you getting back into it. Much of recovery is attitude, determination and stick to it-ive-ness are about as close to a guarantee as we get on this plane. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Thanks Frosty. It's good to be back. I actually made a tong clip yesterday out of a hay rake tine. I believe they are some kind of spring steel but I have no idea what kind. I keep them for just such small projects. The farmer I got them from had a whole bundle of them he was going to throw away since they were broken but they are close to a foot long and easy to forge weld together so they make great small basket twist material. They also make dandy tong clips as I found out yesterday. Farmers are a fantastic source of old steel that's great for ornamental work. They are constantly breaking stuff. Most of it is usually some sort of tool steel or spring steel with the occasional cable or plow points thrown in for good measure. I have no idea what any of it is made from but it's great for making ornamental pieces or anything that doesn't have to be guaranteed break resistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 IIRC hay rake tines are typically medium high carbon that's spring tempered and you bet they're good stock! The chasing chisels used in the 'Viking Bottle Opener" thread are excellent uses for hay rake tines. I'd ask the farmers around here but I already have a BIG pile of "potato chain" because I asked about useable scrap. The farmer had his son pile a bunch in the SUV while he kept me distracted talking. Happily I wasn't driving the pickup or I'd have a ton of the things. Potato chain is excellent medium carbon stock. Geeze I hate relying on my memory but they're round rod just under 3/8" dia. and about 28" long before you straighten the link ends. Yeah, Farmer's "junk" piles ROCK! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 until recently I worked at a feed store so I was always getting farm scrap. None of them would let me come raid their barns though lol. During a renovation of the feed store we took a bunch of bars off the windows. They turned out to be wrought iron! I brought some home but now I can't find them but if memory serves, they were about four feet long and 5/8" or maybe 3/4" diameter. I've heard working wrought was tricky so I never did anything with them. I was waiting till I learned more about it and came up with an idea or till I could find someone who might want to make something out of them for a trade of course. I'll keep looking for them and see if I can find them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 Great wrought iron score. Thats about the only thing I add to my scrap pile anymore. Good stuff and its actually very forgiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted April 2, 2023 Author Share Posted April 2, 2023 Well, it would have been a great score if I could find it! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 3, 2023 Share Posted April 3, 2023 We'll keep our fingers crossed for you Jason. Join the club Brother. I try not to think about the deals I've missed out on just by not taking them. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 4, 2023 Share Posted April 4, 2023 Mechanics are another good source for "free steel" in my experience. I made our mechanic a bottle opener from an unplated wrench and he offered me several tons of scrap out back of their shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted April 4, 2023 Author Share Posted April 4, 2023 Nice one Thomas. I never bothered with mechanics too much because at one point in time my pile was getting a little out of hand just from what I scrounged from work. I never had need to go elsewhere. Once I get going I'll probably buy good known steel for the most part but I'll always keep my finger on the pulse around town to see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 Found stock is fine once you learn to evaluate it for use. It's an experience thing so don't stop picking up salvaged stuff, it's good evaluation practice. For serious learning go with steel supplier, a couple few sticks is cheap tuition. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 You're right Frosty. I'll always have found steel on hand, it's a compulsion. But bought steel is more reliable and there are charts on how to deal with it. The scrap finds are for my own use just to play with. It's great therapy just to heat, beat and repeat. I've found I relax quite a bit when I'm just hammering for no reason and with no plan. I'd hate to do that with bought stuff but free is just right. My forge is my fidget spinner I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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