Arkans Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 Okay bought this forge from Twisted (awesomes guy). He didn't think the original blower could be rebuilt, I think because the flywheel pulley was broken. I found that whole assembly for the flywheel and clutch online for sale for about 86.00 shipped. So do I restore the forge or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 If that's your thing, why not? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 I wouldn’t bother with all that, that blower assembly has more wrong with it then just the flywheel, and even in tip top shape those lever blowers aren’t all that great, that forge body on the other hand is in excellent shape!!! and you already have a working Buffalo blower ready to use now!!! I would just make an adapter plate to match the existing holes and then attach a tuyere to the plate and your off to the races I’ve seen other folks here on IFI do really cool retrofits using a good rivet forge body you might run down to the scrap yard in stilwell tomorrow and find a plate with pipe already welded to it ready to bolt up for $.20 a pound! sometimes I luck out and find the perfect part for a project down there just laying in the dirt! Don’t forget to clay it before firing or that excellent forge body can possibly crack on you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted December 18, 2022 Share Posted December 18, 2022 I pretty much agree with TW. I think that, generally, the cranked blowers work better than the lever type. So I would not go to much effort to try to restore the clutch, etc. and would just hook up an ash trap and plumbing to use the crank blower with the existing body. That will get you forging fastest. Ususally, that is the point to where we want to get. We restore old machines and equipment to get forging and because it often works better than the modern versions, e.g. a Champion or Beffalo blower vs. those sad little short handled blowers they use on the I Forge Iron TV show, because most of us cannot afford the barnd new, bright, and shiny new stuff, and because the old stuff is esthetically cool and we get satisfaction from using tools that were working before our grandparents were born. But getting to the point of getting metal hot and hitting it with a hammer is the primary motivation. I have a theory about the lever type forges: When rotary blowers were introduced in about the 1890s almost all smiths were used to pumping a bellows lever with their left hands. Turning a crank was new and didn't feel "right." So, the lever type forges allowed a smith to still use the up and down motion he was used to. I have always used a hand crank forge and now, when I use my propane forge it feels a little weird not to be moving my left hand in a circle while the metal is heating. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 Sound advice, I was curious on the forge after I bought it, so i looked it up, and stumbled on the broken pieces on line, so it got me to wondering. I am going to get this thing going with the hand crank, but will save the parts, maybe down the road sometime i can always go back and restore for the novelty. For now i am going to just get it up and running, dont worry i have not forgotten about the clay. Now, here is a question, I want to treat the metal on the pot, I hear Johnson's paste wax works great on treating things like cast iron, as a rust preventative. you heat it up and apply it to the hot metal,and it will blacken it like seasoning an cast iron skillet. Id this a good idea or is there something better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 I always use BLO (boiled linseed oil) Just brush it on and let it cure (dry) pretty easy and I like easy. When it comes to restoring old stuff, I love a challenge. One reason I got into restoring old Willy's Overland Jeeps. Now that's a real challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 If you want your BLO to dry faster mix it 50% with turpentine. Smells better too. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 will have to go find that, do i need to heat the iron before applying it? Since i am storing this outside, (current shop is not big enough to set up indoors) i am thinking on making a cover for my forge when not in use... sooner or late i am going to but a cover over the whole area, but until then, i think a water proof cover for the forge and anvil would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 19, 2022 Share Posted December 19, 2022 18 hours ago, George N. M. said: When rotary blowers were introduced in about the 1890s almost all smiths were used to pumping a bellows lever with their left hands. I believe your theory is right, some of the old adds for these touted that very thought. But not many manufacturers made them and only for a short time. They take up a lot of floor space and tended to need a lot of work to keep working. Restoring one might be a nice if expensive hobby but it'll break even on the expense let alone make a buck. Worse they don't work all that well or you'd be hearing one of the 60,000+ IFI members talking about their's. You can get it up and working in a couple hours max. A floor flange, a close nipple, a T and two long nipples. Screw the floor flange to the close nipple and match one or more holes up with as many as possible in the forge. screw one of the long nipples to the arm of the T pointing straight down. You WANT a straight shot from the air grate in the forge to the dump gate and room under the horizontal air supply nipple. Mount your blower on your dominant side, because you'll want to manipulate your work and fuel while turning the crank, you won't need your hammer hand until you've stepped to the anvil. Make sense? Connect your blower to the horizontal nipple however you wish, vacuum cleaner hose, dryer duct, what ever, duct tape at the blower makes for a nice air seal. Under the forge doesn't really matter, it's a distance from the fire and burning coals falling through the grate and has cool air blowing through it. Ash dumps have to be one of the most impractically over thought things on solid fuel forges. I have a Buffalo rivet forge with the original Champ 40 crank blower and it connects via the lever locking mortise and tenon. The tuyere on the forge is all cast iron so the ash dump is the Buffalo factory ash dump, it consists of a rectangular piece of sheet steel with a 90* bend in one end for a finger grip and "slides" in slots on each side of the tuyere's bottom. It's been repaired a couple times before I got it and I strongly doubt it worked for them either. The home made ash dump I came up with is a clamp on exhaust flap cap as seen on semi exhaust stacks. Clamp it to the bottom of the lower nipple with the counter weight facing the smith's working position where he can reach under the forge with whatever is in hand and flip it open. The ash, clinker, coals, unburned coal, scale, all that crud, falls out into a catch thingy. I use a steel bucket with a few inches of water so as not to start fires. The one I have on my forge is fabbed from truck exhaust tubing and a 14 ga. bolt flange I made everything but the flap cap and carriage bolts that mount it to the forge table. The air grate is IIRC 1/2" round stock that just lays over the hole in the table. I run a "Duck's Nest" forge, no fire pot, I make what ever size and shape fire I need by arranging hard fire brick around the air grate. The table is clayed about 1" deep and slopes down to the air grate. The same tuyere works on whatever you have for a forge just drill holes in the floor flange or your home made bold, screw, rivet, whatever flange and it's ready to go. I built the oversized (because I didn't know any better) forge from the ground up in about 4 hours, 30" x 48" table, 2" x 2" angle iron rim, 2" square tubing legs, spreaders, tuyere, and blower mount. It took much longer for the Krylon header paint to dry like anything hot enough to hurt plain old industrial Krylon was close to hurt it. All of this discussion comes down to one question. Do you want to restore antiques for less than it'll cost. OR do you want to do some blacksmithing? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Arkans, if the iron is warm when you apply the BLO or BLO/turp mix it will dry faster because the heat will drive off the volatiles faster but putting it on at room temperature is OK too. GNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Flashpoint means the temperature at which a liquid ignites without warning when in contact with air. Linseed oil can catch fire at approximately 200 °F (93.3 °C), the flashpoint. Turpentine can catch fire at approximately 95 degrees °F (35 °C) the flashpoint. It will also auto-ignite, that is catch fire without any source of flame or spark, at a relatively low 220 degrees Fahrenheit (104 Celsius). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Another thing to remember when using BLO is that it is exothermic when drying, meaning it generates heat. If a BLO oily rag is wadded up and the heat cannot excape it can get hot enough to spontaneously combust. The old wisdom about oily rags being a fire hazard referred to linseed oily rags, not motor or lubricating oil oily. Even many firefighters do not know the difference. Linseed oil products used to be much more common than they are today and so there were more chances for someone to improperly dispose of linseed oily rags and start a fire. When you have a BLO oily rag either store it in an air tight metal container or spread it out to dry, hang it like it was water wet and you want it to dry quickly, lots of surface area and exposure to the air. That way the heat disipates and never gets close to an ignition temperature. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Toss them into the forge firepot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted December 20, 2022 Author Share Posted December 20, 2022 I think I like Thomas' idea... just burn um and get it over with...... Johnson's paste wax is looking better and better, I don't know if I want some thing that volatile in my shop.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Johnson's paste wax is no longer made. MSDS Sheet Johnson’s Paste Wax Flashpoint: 87.98°F (31.1°C) ----------- Gasoline (petrol) −45 °F (−43 °C) Autoignition temperature 536 °F (280 °C) Diesel (2-D) >52 °C (>26 °F) Autoignition temperature 210 °C (410 °F) Jet fuel (A/A-1) 100 °F ( >38 °C ) Autoignition temperature210 °C (410 °F) Kerosene 100–162 °F (>38–72 °C Autoignition temperature 220 °C (428 °F) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobtiel1 Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Since dried out linseed rags get quite hard, I burn them up too. I apply it with paper rags as well as to not use up the shop rags too quickly. The flashpoint of a compound or mixture is actually the temperature at which that mixture releases enough vapor to be able to have the vapors burn. the mixture itself does not necessarily have to burn at that point and if you test this in a laboratory the fire will go out if you lower the temperature of the mixture again so that it doesn't release the vapors anymore. ~Jobtiel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 Keep in mind that BLO as such doesn't harden through drying (evaporation of solvents), but through curing (polymerization through oxidization of polyunsaturated fatty acid esters). Once the polymerization is complete, the resulting finish does not re-dissolve, as shellac does when exposed to alcohol or wax when exposed to mineral spirits. Thinning BLO with turpentine or other solvent doesn't speed up polymerization; it simply results in a thinner layer of oil which doesn't take as long to oxidize as a thick layer. The polymerization reaction can be sped up through the addition of metallic salts, sold commercially as "Japan dryer". This does not provide the oxygen for the polymerization, but speeds up the rate at which the triglycerides link together. On 12/18/2022 at 8:09 PM, Arkans said: I was curious on the forge after I bought it, so i looked it up, and stumbled on the broken pieces on line, so it got me to wondering. Never buy parts like this online, unless you are 100% sure that they are brand spanking new and unused; there's no guarantee that a replacement clutch mechanism isn't on the verge of wearing out and breaking anyway. On 12/18/2022 at 8:09 PM, Arkans said: I am going to get this thing going with the hand crank Definitely the best plan. On 12/18/2022 at 11:30 PM, Arkans said: i am thinking on making a cover for my forge when not in use... sooner or late i am going to but a cover over the whole area, but until then, i think a water proof cover for the forge and anvil would be helpful. Yes, but not necessarily airtight. Condensation under a waterproof cover can cause rust just as easily as rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 I was actually thinking on moding a BBQ grill cover. they would keep the direct rain off saving the clay i am putting in the forge for washing out in a rain storm, and keeping it dry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted January 14, 2023 Author Share Posted January 14, 2023 Well I am getting along on setting this forge to go! Not laughing at my welds, I found out I am not as good a welder as I once was since I have not welded anything in about 20 years. Those nasty looking welds did pass the beat the heck out of them with a heavy hammer test and they held... but this will bolt up under the forge, and instead of trying to find a 6 inch drain grate I just cut and drilled holes through to the ash dump. Now I just need to weld on a hinge plate for the ash dump.. bolt on this lower assembly, clay in the forge body, and I am good to go! I hope.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 If you end up using coal then Your gonna need bigger holes in the tuyere grate, you won’t get enough air flow through that to effectively forge, that said it should work decent for Charcoal if your goin that route, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 Thank you Twisted! i was wondering if i was going to need more or not, so tomorrow i will grind out more slits to increase the air flow. I have my clay mixed up as well and sealed in a bucket. so once i have it installed, and the linseed oil drys, I am going to clay in the forge as well, i might send you a pic once i have worked on increasing the air flow. i do want to use Coal. That day at your forge, i have to admit, i love the smell of coal. I still need to find a vise, hate to say it but that is on top of my next to buy list. I have even looked into what it would take to make a homemade version of a post vise, but will have to work on my welding skills some more before i tackle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 I have some good post vise bodies that are missing the screw and screw boxes if your wanting to go that route, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 Well I opened up the air grate some more. The one pic is not lined up correctly I was just holding it up in place. If needed I can open it up some more. Also been working on getting the ugly blue paint off my anvil, and dressing the edges. right now I have the anvil sitting on an old air tank I have, but that is just mainly to work on it. Funny enough it is at the right height according the knuckle test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 That grate should work OK now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkans Posted January 16, 2023 Author Share Posted January 16, 2023 Well I have it together, I just need a hose to connect the blower! there is my set up, I need to get an 1 1/2 inch hose to reach between them. and this is the forge all clayed in, just need to cure! And we will be ready for the first fire up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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