VEVOR Anvil's

[Arkans]

Okay looking at buy a VEVOR Anvil.  the Prices are right for my budget, but I worry I am going  to get a Lemon. I found a few reviews on Youtube.com  but as I am new to this and know next to nothing about Anvils, I am asking before I buy.  I am looking at the 110lb Anvil, On the Reviews it shows just about everyone stripping off the paint, and reshaping the horn, as well as dressing the edges.  The reviews roughly put it between 50 and 55 hardness.  Although they have found some Bondo covering minor casting imperfections.  most complain about the location of the Bolster hole, and most i have seen have to clean up the hardy hole with a file.  (i also seen the another review on here, and though the name is different, he seemed to have the same issues.)   So VEVOR, good anvil for starting out with, or do I avoid these?    I have a Harbor Freight Anvil, and already know not to use that. I am on limited funds, so any advice would be welcome.  I will drop a link to the review video i found as well...Link removed due to advertising

[KYCATS]

They sell both cast iron and cast steel anvils. Make sure to get the cast steel. It would be a huge upgrade to your harbor freight anvil. Yes they do need a little clean up. I just picked up the 66lber on a cyber Monday deal because we all need more anvils 

[Purple Bullet]

Hey Arkans. In our engineering group at a major oil company we used to say "I can get what you want fast, good or cheap - pick any two." The cosmetic issues that I have seen (admittedly, only online - always suspect) had nothing to do with the function of the anvil. The weird pritchel can be gotten around, but that is half the fun of smithing! Figuring out how to do stuff.

I probably wouldn't buy a HF anvil shaped object, but if I had one and didn't have anything else I'd sure as heck use it. I've used shipyard gantry rails (like RR tracks but a little larger) and other random hunks of metal. One of my favorites when I was doing some improvising offshore was a large boat bit.

My anvil was bought by my wife's grandfather from an sugar plantation auction. I had to replace about half the face with hard surface rods back when those could be had for a reasonable price. The surface could only be described as "nominally flat" and doesn't have a lot of bounce. I'm considering one of those anvils myself, but I'm not in a hurry. Why? Cause what I have works. 

[lary]

If I wasn't confident in my ability to fix that ridiculous round hole it probably would have been a deal breaker for me. Plus the the second "132" lbs Acciaio I purchased that actually weigh 126 to 127 lbs was only $226.00 shipped to my door. Hard to beat that price. This might just be a sale that pops up my area, and it seems to only be with the 132lbs/60kg model. Vevor is a different kind of company, the purchases have to be done on line. I paid with Paypal. I was able to place an order in just a few minutes. Prior to that my wife wasted several hours trying to pay with a pre-paid debit card and it just would not go through. The problem was on Vevor's end.

The advice I see given by the old timers is get a chunk of steel and make an improvised anvil. Great advice indeed. Because if you are still a little green when it comes to smithing, and your hammer control isn't so good, and your forging something a little to cold. and you get tired, and your smashing something with a 4 pound hammer useing all your might and you miss a blow it will dent these anvils.

They aren't horrible, there is that sweet spot between the holes that gives pretty decent rebound. Hickory Forge has a video and mentions there possibly made from c45 / 1045 steel. I don't know where he gets that information, but I've made a few hammers from 1045 and the characteristics seem similar. I for the most part have been using hammers in the 2 pound range, and I've missed a blow or two along the way, the face is holding up well, after about a year of forging on it ounce or twice a week, there are some minor depressions in the surface. Nothing bad enough to transfer into the work.

[Arkans]

Thank you for the advice on this, and that I was thinking on the 110lb.  I am going to try to find an old oak tree stump large enough to to cut to height.  And I hear the ring on these is horrible so I think I am just going to wrap an old logging chain around the base several times.  I have seen Old hickory's video as well, and I think that is what he did when he reviewed either the 110 or the 66 pound anvil..  

Hammer control I know will come with time, and the hammers I am looking at are 2 lb range.   From reading the forums on here, I am sure there are times where letting the hammer fly is required, but my grand father taught me something when I was young that holds true today.  We was drilling through a tough piece of metal, and I had the drill and I just opened up with it full speed ahead. He stopped me and explained sometimes less is more..  he had me slow down the drill speed. He explained that the increased speed, increased the heat would dull the drill bit.  That if I slowed down the bit it would take cleaner cuts, and not dull the blade.  He went on the say that in life there is always time to speed up, and to start anything new light and slow, you learn more, and don't mess thing up along the way.  I have found he is right throughout life.  I fly model airplanes, light and easy on the controls or you lose control, backing a trailer, you make small corrections, other wise the trailer is all over the place.  I plan on learning forging the same way, light swings, light hammer, and learn up.  This way I don't tear up anything I can't afford to replace.

[lary]

That's good advise about the drill bits. As far as the ring, when I first put one of these anvils on a wood stand I caulked the bottom and anchored it down with angle iron and  1/2 x 4 1/2 inch lag screws. It was pretty quite. But I'm working on uneven concrete, so there was always a little wobble to deal with. I built a steel tripod stand. caulked and bolted it down. Now it was obnoxiously loud. Speaker magnet didn't help. A 3/8 chain, and turn buckle (to tighten it down) did the trick.

[Frosty]

Lary: A steel tripod made your anvil louder? What is the contact between stand and anvil? My steel tripod quieted my Soderfors from injuriously loud to plugs only comfortable the Trenton is even better. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BillyBones]

12 hours ago, Purple Bullet said:

In our engineering group at a major oil company we used to say "I can get what you want fast, good or cheap - pick any two."

When i was still working on transmissions we used to say the same thing. 

I have never used nor own one of those anvils so i can only go on what i have heard others say. Most of the reviews i have seen have been fairly positive on them. The biggest complaint i have seen is the pritchel hole location. Would i consider one? Sure why not but like many things in this life keep in mind, you get what you pay for. A new Holland anvil is about 5x the price of one in a comparable weight. So there you have it, fast and cheap vs. fast and good. 

KYCATS, i love that anvil you have the Accio sitting on top of. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Who wouldn't love a Mouse Hole anvil?

[JHCC]

Who indeed?

1 hour ago, BillyBones said:

A new Holland anvil is about 5x the price of one in a comparable weight. So there you have it, fast and cheap vs. fast and good. 

More like fast, cheap, and good vs. fast (if it's in stock), not cheap, and excellent.

[Frosty]

It was some cat named Sylvester, Randy.

We had that hung prominently in the shop when I twisted wrenches for a living: on the same poster with. "Labor $75/ hr. $100/hr. if you watch, $150/hr. guarantee void, if you help."  

Frosty The Lucky.

[Arkans]

Frosty, I have seen the same sign for labor Rates and the one I seen tripled the previous rate, since you would usually have to go back behind them to correct their mistakes...  I can not tell you how many times I bought something and had to fix the previous owners ummm modifications... last Harley I owned was like that... had to rebuild the motor completely due to improperly modified exhaust and burnt valves.  I am sitting here now pencils, slide rulers, t-square, other implements of mental torment, designing a coal Forge.   I sooo need to hit a scrap yard next Friday... and a pawn shop, think it is time to invest in a stick welder or maybe a cheap Mig welder if I can find one at the right price. My back is killing me bent over the table. 

[Purple Bullet]

Pencils and T-square I understand, but slide rule? Wow! I have my dad's old slide rule and I know how to multiply and divide with it but haven't actually used one for over forty years. Have fun with the build!

[KYCATS]

5 hours ago, BillyBones said:

KYCATS, i love that anvil you have the Accio sitting on top of.

Thank you BillyBones.  135lb when new C&A Mousehole. She's my most used anvil and my favorite to forge on

[Frosty]

It's been 1976 since I worked where they hung one of those signs so I was winging the rates, if I recall the shop rate was around $45-50? Good, fast, cheap, I think I picked the wrong two when it came to memory.

I probably still have a slide rule somewhere, couldn't do more than multiply and divide either but I've modernized, now I have a TI-30-SLR calculator! Unfortunately I can't figure out how to do much more than multiply, divide, add and subtract on it. I have the instructions but they don't make much sense, I'd be happy if I could use a constant. But it's SOLAR! 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BillyBones]

I was not sure if that was a Mousehole or not. I was going to say it looked like one but one of the times i chose not to let my ignorance show. I was also going to guess American Colonial period on it, maybe? Mine is from the 1850's, 153#, and yes i love it, and is a bit more (for lack of a better word) sleek, i guess. 

Arkans, my wife bought me a small stick welder for Christmas 2 years ago from Tractor Supply. I believe it was about $130US at the time, i am sure price has gone up a bit since. While no i will not be welding bridges and sky scrapers together with it, it has done just about everything i need a welder for. From repairs on my truck to tacking handles on something i am working on. 

[JHCC]

I've got a Lincoln 125 PowerMIG that's been great for almost everything I've needed. I also have an old Lincoln tombstone stick welder that I will teach myself to use one of these days after I finish rewiring my 220V outlet to handle the higher amps.

[lary]

On 12/10/2022 at 9:11 AM, Frosty said:

 A steel tripod made your anvil louder?

The plate, if you want to call it that, that the anvil sits on is 2 pieces of 1/4x5x3 inch angle welded together, might be a problem with resonating. I didn't have any 1/2 plate laying around at the time. I shaped some 1/2" round to wrap around the feet and threaded the the ends so it could be tightened down. There is caulk between the anvil and base, maybe that doesn't help with steel stands. The legs are 1 x 2 inch box tubing, I did not fill the legs with sand, maybe that's another problem. But the chain and turnbuckle saved the day Its almost as quite as when it was on a wood stand.

[Frosty]

Hm, both my Soderfors and Trenton were very loud on wood and I'd bedded both in silty sand mostly to even out my poorly executed job of making the mortise but it helped with the loud. After I'd built my first tripod stand and discovered how drastically it'd quieted the ring I put it right back in the spruce block and sure enough cripplingly loud. 

It put me to thinking about resonance in steel and why it happens. Take a common blacksmith product a dinner triangle. Ever hang one on a nail? It goes from CLANG!! to clunk buzz. The nail damps the resonance and ring. I tried a number of things like tuning forks and a 25' length of RR rail. On wood and the rail is brutally loud, lean a piece of angle iron against it and it's clank. Kind of loud maybe but still just clank. Try holding a tuning fork loosely with a pair of pliers and it won't ring long at all. 

Even wedged into the stands my anvils still vibrate against the stand rather than ring, clank though either is still really loud if you moss a blow on horn or worse heal, it's still clank Just louder. 

My hypothesis about resonance damping was being discussed some years ago, here maybe the old Theforge. list maybe Jock's forum probably all of them. Anyway I tried laying a piece of leather under the Soderfors and not wedging it. Rang like a demon bell and longer than on wood.

Damping the resonance by contact with a metallic or other hard object is what makes chain so effective and magnets less so. 

I doubt filling the legs will make any difference, it's not the stand that's ringing so all it really does is make it heavier. And I strongly doubt a heavy stand does more for forging than keep the anvil from moving around the floor. 

About the only thing I can think of why your anvil's so loud on a steel stand is perhaps the silicone(?) between it and the stand is preventing the steel on steel damping effect or perhaps you have them too tightly coupled for the same effect. Maybe just for grins try loosening the hold down bolts and give it a tap and see?

Gotta go now, I need to drag up a sledfull of firewood and go do some Christmas shopping. UGH!, I hate shopping, especially Christmas shopping!

Frosty The Lucky.

[BillyBones]

Christmas shopping? I aint been in years to do that. Christmas shopping for me is going to the bank. My daughters liked getting up early and doing the whole black friday thing and even then i would just hand them money to get whatever, that worked pretty good for a while. Win/win, grandpa gets to give the grandkids presents, the grandkids get what they want (cuase i have no clue as to what that would be).  Now i think they just do it all online. 

[lary]

By the way Frosty, Thank you for that dinner triangle analogy. That makes more sense than anything. I've insulated the mass of the anvil from the mass of the stand. I'll take it apart and clean off the caulk.

[JHCC]

On 12/11/2022 at 3:32 PM, Frosty said:

About the only thing I can think of why your anvil's so loud on a steel stand is perhaps the silicone(?) between it and the stand is preventing the steel on steel damping effect or perhaps you have them too tightly coupled for the same effect.

I don't know about this. Both of my anvils have cushioning between them and their respective metal stands (the Mousehole (AKA The Undisputed King of Anvils) has a layer of silicone, and the Peter Wright (aka the Emergency Back-Up Anvil) has a piece of rubber innertube)  and are both clamped down very tightly, and the rings of both are substantially reduced, if not eliminated.

[Arkans]

I did see a nice Anvil stand build, again on YouTube.  Used 4 6x6 blocks bolted and glued.   The made a bolt down bracket and silicone to silence the ring, will that work?

[Frosty]

I'm not saying silicone calking doesn't work, too many people use it and it's effective. Yours is actually glued to the stand isn't it? I doubt that is the same as setting it on silicone, rubber, felt, leather, etc. What I CAN say for sure is both my loud anvils wedged into steel stands are significantly quieter, literally from make your ears ring through muffs and plugs to not bad without protection though a missed blow on the heal will hurt your ears. I have tried magnets and chain on both and while they helped they'd still make your ears ring through protection.

Lary: That's just my hypothesis about why my stands are so effective, so if it doesn't work for you it's John's fault! 

6"x6"s screwed and glued on end makes a fine stand. Arkans If it's not quiet enough there are always chains and magnets.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

44 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Yours is actually glued to the stand isn't it?

The UKOA is glued and bolted down with brackets at the ends of the base; the EBUA is similarly bolted down, but with inner tube rubber compressed in between (not glued).