Newbie in Missouri USA

[Shainarue]

I'm super new to blacksmithing on my own. I've taken 3 classes to make specific objects. Each class was 3 hours and we used a propane forge. So I have a basic understanding of hammer control and basic twists and points, but I have zero knowledge of building a coal fire. 

I've done some scrounging and found a $2 hammer that I'm going to try to dress using advice from a YouTube video by Alec Steele. I have a friend that is giving me their railroad rail section to use as an anvil so that took care of a huge setup expense. (I still need to invest in a vice and possibly a hammer.) I have some library books on reserve so I'll be more knowledgeable about terminology and techniques soon. I'm following a few blacksmith channels on YouTube and saved a few beginner projects to work on. I've found someone local who offered to help me learn to build the fire and other tid bits at their shop. 

I'm interested in the JABOD forge to use with coal/coke. I already have a 3-ft wide in-ground brick-lined round firepit that I made about 10 years ago. I've recently dug a trench leading to the pit in anticipation of making it dual-purpose and setting up a section of it for forging. The trench was intended to hold the air intake pipe but maybe it's better to use the trench as the forge? (picture attached, pavers on top of trench just for safety until it's covered.) 

Everything I've read in the JABOD thread showed the "pot" as ending level with the top of the box, and then the coal pile mounded about an inch or two above the top level. With the depth of my firepit, the coal pile would be below ground unless I raise that portion up with bricks or something. Will it work below ground level or do I need the air above ground combined with the intake air to make it work? 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. Where about in Missouri are you located? We won't remember your location once leaving this thread, hence the suggestion to add it in your profile.

[George N. M.]

Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

The issue about the depth of a solid fuel forge has to do with the relationship of the workpiece to the fire.  If you are just sticking the end of the work piece into the fire you can do that at an angle.  Think of the fire in the bottom of a bowl and the work piece is slanting down from the rim of the bowl.  However, if you want to heat the middle of a piece a deep "bowl" becomes a problem  because you have to lay the piece across the top of the bowl, rim to tim, and the fire is too far below to heat the work.  That is why many coal forges are either pretty shallow, so the fire extends vertically above the level of the rim or have cut outs in the rim so that a long piece of work can be set down into the fire.

I suggest that you look up the Blacksmith Association of Missouri and seriously consider joining and participating in their meetings and activities.  You will learn a LOT.  I can tell you from poresonal experience that learning to blacksmith as a lone eagle is not the optimum method.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[SLAG]

Mr. Shainarue,

Welcome to the club.

I am in St. Louis Missouri.

Where are you located?

Regards.

SLAG.

[Shainarue]

22 hours ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said:

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. Where about in Missouri are you located? 

I'm in the KC area. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mod30
Trim quote.

[Shainarue]

 

Thanks for the welcome! I'm in the Kansas City area. I do have one person locally who is willing to help me in the process. I had looked at the Blacksmith Association of Missouri just yesterday actually. Their calendar currently only shows monthly meetings and the MO State Fair exhibit. I'll keep an eye on the calendar though for anything I can attend. 

Thanks for the explanation about the reason behind the forge designs. Starting out, I'll likely only be using the end for leaf keyrings, bottle openers, and hooks or points. At least until I feel like my basic technique is solid. But in the event of a longer piece or a middle needing heated, I could always rearrange the setup to accommodate. I'm thinking, if I set the burn area right where the trench meets the pit, and the air pipe coming from the other end of the trench. Then, if I need more length, I can just remove the log grate and I've got 3 more feet of space. I doubt I'll need more than that in the near future! 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mod30
Remove @name tag

[Shainarue]

My apologies. I just now got around to seeing and reading the "READ THIS FIRST" message in my inbox. I tried to delete the original "Quote reply" and couldn't find an option other than edit. 

I tried to edit my other comment to remove all the tags but I can only remove text and not tags. So, all I can say is sorry and it won't happen again! 

[Frosty]

Well, okay then we'll call the thugs back you won't need ruffing up after all. 

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. Rather than trying to modify the pit into a problematical ground forge you've just about finished a truly ancient proven ground forge digging the trench for the air supply. 

If you cut a narrow trench at 90* to the large one angled downwards and drop your air pipe into it protruding SLIGHTLY into and an inch or so above the bottom you'll have the ground version of the JABOD. Not an ideal version but good enough to start forging with. Cook lunch or pyrolize charcoal in the fire pit. That thing will burn 10x as much fuel as you really need while baking you like a potato. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Howdy from eastern Oklahoma and welcome to the forum! Glad to have you!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

No need to apologize, we all ran into those quirks of the forum when starting out. I was hoping you were a little closer to the southern border with AR. I'm about 5 miles south of the state line and Eagle Rock. You might want to look into BAM Blacksmith Association of Missouri. A great organization and folks with chapters near you. https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/223-bam-blacksmiths-association-of-missouri/

Sadly Covid has put a crimp in a lot of organizations schedules. My wife and I belong to the BOA Blacksmith Organization of Arkansas and the same thing has happened to us. https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/187-blacksmith-organization-of-arkansas/

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

What kinda smithing are you interested in doing?
Hardware items? Blades? Armor? Architectural? ect..

Or are you gonna do a little bit of all of em?

[Shainarue]

My wife and I do love to visit the southern border though. A few years back we visited all of the state parks in Missouri. When we visited the ones in Southern Missouri, we rented a cabin that we absolutely adored. My favorite parks were Echo Bluff and Grand Gulf. We took our honeymoon in Eureka Springs. 

5 minutes ago, TWISTEDWILLOW said:

What kinda smithing are you interested in doing?

Functional stuff and Kitschy stuff? Lol, for now, I want to do a little of everything to learn the various techniques. I'm not a person that holds on to stuff though, so everything I make will likely be given away (and maybe one day sold, lol). My wife wants a paper towel holder in her work space and a bigger log grate for the fire pit. I thought it would be nice to have drink holders for the fire pit as well, like those ones that spear into the ground and have a spiral on top to hold the drink. 

I don't have much interest in knives other than as art pieces. Might be fun to make an artsy throwing dagger someday. 

My nephews love knives though, so maybe I'd make one for them. One of my nephews is super into medieval stuff and has purchased a few pieces of armor so it would be cool to make him something. 

So I guess a little of all? 

[George N. M.]

Shaina, depending on his age your nephew might be interested in looking up and participating in the local KC chapter of the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA), a medieval reenactment group.  Both Thomas Powers and I have been members an participants in this organization for over 40 years.  They are a great group in my experience and are good at recieving new folk and young people.  His parents (or you) may be interested as well.  There are lots of various activities available in the group including medieval combat (heavy weapons, fencing, archery), arts and sciences such as cookery, blacksmithing or other metal working, costuming, spinning and weaving, performance arts such as drama, music, and dance, and just about anything else you can think of.  Members take on a medival persona which can be about any culture between AD 500 and 1600.  So you may see a 15th century samurai sitting next to a 16th century English lady who is next to a 9th century Viking.

GNM

(known in the SCA as Master Garwed Cadburiensis)

[Shainarue]

He'll be a senior in highschool this coming year. He lives north, in Savannah, and doesn't drive. He wants to weld when he graduates. I've offered to let him stay with us in KC if he decides to attend the welding school in Grain Valley. I'm sure he would love the SCA as would I and possibly might even be able to rope in my wife (she does all things fiber: sheep-to-shawl type). 

I'll look into it and see if it's something I can work into our schedules! 

[George N. M.]

You and your wife may be what seems to be common in the blacksmithing community, what are known as "steel wool couples."  It is not uncommon at a blacksmithing conference to see a group of spouses sitting around spinning or weaving outside the shop or demo area.  My late wife, Martha, was an accomplished spinner, weaver, and needle woman.  Thomas' wife is a fiber person, John's ("JHCC") wife just recently opened a yarn and fiber shop, and, IIRC, Frosty's wife has a fiber interest.

It is my theory that craft calls to craft.  A person who is a maker and likes to work with their hands will find common interests with someone who also loves to create.  It doesn't have to be the same interest, craft, or skill but the basic motivation is the same.

Around 17 or 18 is a good age for your nephew to get involved with the SCA, particularly if he is interested in participating in the heavy weapons activities (mainly sword and shield combat).  The SCA doesn't use actual steel weapons in combat since it is a recreation and people should not be actually injured.  Swords are made of rattan (a solid type of bamboo that is wrapped in filament tape and duct tape.  It is heavy enough to simulate the feel of a steel weapon.  There are strict armor and protection standards to prevent serious injuries.

Your local SCA group in KC is the Barony of Forgotten Sea (Regions in the SCA are Kingdoms and local groups, depending on size, are Baronies or Shires).  You can look it up at https://www.bfs-kc.org/  Many of the SCA groups (and blacksmithing groups) are currently on a limited schedule of activities because of covid but I REALLY hope that this will eventually be a thing of the past.

BTW, you may have noticed that IFI is heavily male but there are some very good female smiths around.  The first one I can think of is Jennifer in Rutland, MA who uses the handle of JPL Services both on IFI and her You Tube channel.  She does excellent blacksmithing videos and I highly recommend them.  You may want to Private Message her to make a hello.

GNM

[Frosty]

Ayup, Deb's a spinner and knitter. In fact we spent a couple hours at the summer fiber fair she needed some Angora fur for a project. 

I'm with George, crafty people attract crafty people. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Shainarue]

11 hours ago, George N. M. said:

Your local SCA group in KC is the Barony of Forgotten Sea (Regions in the SCA are Kingdoms and local groups, depending on size, are Baronies or Shires).  You can look it up at https://www.bfs-kc.org/ 

Yes, I stayed up much later than I should have digging around in the various groups. There's actually one that's closer to me called 'Canton of Aston Tor' which I have pinned to dig into further over my lunch break today. Then for my nephew, I sent him info on Shire of Lost Moor since that's closest to him. I saw Canton of Aston Tor regularly gets together with the Barony of Forgotten Sea for archery practice - which is another hobby I enjoy but haven't invested in, lol. So - that's cool to know, in the event I ever actually get a bow. I should probably pin the Barony as well since they might have more activities (being larger and all). 

[BillyBones]

Welcome aboard. 

My wife's only hobby is pestering me. Really though i call  her and her freinds the crazy cat ladies. They go out and trap feral cats and get them neutered then back to the wild. If they are small kittens they work with shelters to get them a home. 

The Blacksmith Association of Missouri has a great section of free books to download.  

[Shainarue]

11 hours ago, George N. M. said:

seems to be common in the blacksmithing community, what are known as "steel wool couples.

That is such an interesting commonality to me! I do agree that crafters attract crafters - or more broadly: creators attract creators. Most of my best friends are also creators in one aspect or another. We love listening to each other geek out over our latest passion hobby and totally support each other's piles of unfinished projects, lol
 

11 hours ago, George N. M. said:

there are some very good female smiths around

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll look into her and send a "hello".
 

10 hours ago, Frosty said:

In fact we spent a couple hours at the summer fiber fair

For the past 4 years or so, our vacations have revolved around the location of some sort of fiber fair, lol. This year, we are driving to Canada because she wants to take a 2-day class there. I don't mind. As long as there is a nature park, a zoo, a museum, or even just an interesting architectural history to wander around in - I'm pretty easy going about where we go, lol

 

 

[Scott NC]

  Welcome from North Carolina.  I'm not usually long winded so I'll just say hello. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

In the Reference section there are links to some good videos. Jennifer is not only an excellent blacksmith but a good video maker to boot.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/54803-jlp-videos/

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/44225-a-collection-of-blacksmithing-links-on-youtube/

 

[Shainarue]

Well, I got stuck in that JLP rabbit hole for a few hours. Mesmerizing to watch. I had intended to study vocab... 

[George N. M.]

Ha, all part of the cunning plan to entice you into the craft. ;-)  It's folk like Jennifer who make IFI a really great community.

GNM

[Frosty]

When you're on a road trip check ahead for the closest blacksmith organization then look in their member list and find blacksmith's to visit. Don't forget to encourage the Missus to ask her fibrous compatriots about blacksmiths in the area. Steel wool couples are every darned where you know. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Shainarue]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:43 AM, Frosty said:

Rather than trying to modify the pit into a problematical ground forge you've just about finished a truly ancient proven ground forge digging the trench for the air supply. 

If you cut a narrow trench at 90* to the large one angled downwards and drop your air pipe into it protruding SLIGHTLY into and an inch or so above the bottom you'll have the ground version of the JABOD.

Before I start digging more, I want to make sure I understand you correctly.  I thought what I had was already pretty much the ground version of the JABOD. I'm including two pictures. One the way it is now, with labels indicating where stuff would be. The other with how I understand your suggestion to be.  Is your suggestion for the additional trench just so I don't have to use any part of the existing firepit? I wasn't intending to use the center of the firepit for the forge - maybe that wasn't clear at the beginning. I was going to use a section on the side.