Hi, new here

[SHC]

I’ve actually seen a video of the feathers on a stick trick and did a little reading on that ancient technique and it’s tempting to try it myself. I’m hoping to build a coal forge, probably side draft. 
 

I may make a short video tomorrow and show y’all the buildings and point out things I’d like to do, I’m sure folks here could give me plenty of pointers and ideas. 

[Daswulf]

Well you don't have to build just one forge, or even one style of forge. It is fun to experiment with different techniques if you have the time. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

1 hour ago, SHC said:

I’ll see if I can track down some of the owners on here and send them PMs. 

Might start with CGL.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/63114-my-new-emerson-100-traditonal-arrived-today/

 

[SHC]

Great, thanks. I’ve already sent a message to Little Turtle. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

[CrazyGoatLady]

Hey guys! I'm still alive and I sent you a pm SHC 

[Frosty]

Hey DARLIN, long time no see! How are things on the new farm? Don't be such a stranger and I'll be expecting pics of the kids next spring.

Frosty The Lucky.

[CrazyGoatLady]

Hey Frosty! I'm good and the farm is good. We are getting fencing done slowly but surely and currently in a bit of a disagreement with neighbors who supposedly have an easement on our property. Very long story that I'm afraid is going to be a matter for lawyers...

 But tons of work done and tons more to go. Hopefully I'll have new little spronkers somewhere between January and February. Also we've added quail and turkeys to the roster. Sorry I don't get on often. It's been a very busy and eventful year. I have done a little smithing but not much. I am hoping to get to more here soon. 

It's good to talk with you 

[George N. M.]

Chellie, welcome back.  We've missed you.  It hasn't been the same without you.  Hope to hear from you often.

GNM

[Frazer]

Hi Chellie! Glad to see you!

4 hours ago, CrazyGoatLady said:

But tons of work done and tons more to go.

It never ends, huh? Hopefully it's been fulfilling work.

[SHC]

Das, I do plan to experiment. I like to experiment. I’m planning to build or buy what would be my “main” forge. Likely build. A problem I run into frequently is that I have a hard time finding things for sale that are just exactly what I want, and I haven’t yet seen a forge for sale that suits my desires perfectly. 
 

I also found a large barbecue grill at the dump that I considered turning into a forge. Only one problem though; The charcoal tray is damaged. The problem with that is, I have a hard time justifying turning a large, very nice barbecue into a forge when all it needs is a good cleaning and a charcoal tray that I can replace with junk I find on the side of the road! A few minutes with a pressure washer, take a grinder and drill to the old washing machine I found in a ditch, and I could be cooking on it in half an hour! 
 

I want to thank you again CGL for messaging me back, knowing that you’re still happy with your anvil is going into consideration when I get ready to buy. I didn’t go through your entire thread on it, did you ever stamp it?

[ThomasPowers]

So find another one and convert one to a forge and get to cooking on the other one.  I don't think I can go to the scrapyard without seeing at least 1 grill on the pile!

CGL; nice to hear from you; we worry when folks drop out of sight/site!

[Frosty]

It took me a few seconds to remember you live in Texas, when I see kidding in Jan or Feb I automatically think Kidcicles. The forecast low here is -11f today. We timed kidding for April or May. An easement should be on record with the county but if it's been in use very long hostile possession pretty much says it all. 

Owning a house let alone a farm is never ending maintenance and chores. I liked farm chores though, except cleaning the barn though I did discover an acquaintance wanted the pellet fortified old straw to compost for his worm farm. Turned out he wanted me to deliver it so I continued to dump it where it usually went. <sigh>

SHC: NOW you're exhibiting normal newbie thinking. Blacksmiths don't do "perfect" it's not in the cards for anything. Making a forge is virtually always temporary eventually. You are learning a craft, how do YOU gauge what is right? Seriously, the best (whatever) I ever used may be a disaster for you.

Right now what you really need is anvil time, the right setup and tools will grow with your experience or you will learn to make what you want/need. any years ago while living in a trailer park I found an old wooden kitchen table by the dumpster, brought it home, piled a couple buckets of dirt on it scooped a "depression/fire pot" and used it for a charcoal forge all summer. There was a short length of pipe and blow drier for the blast. The output side of the shop vac was instantly obviously WAY too much air.

I started messing with propane burners maybe 2 years later at the request of a friend for a gas forge.

Frosty The Lucky.

[SHC]

Okay, I do see your point. FWIW, I am also trying to get some hammer time. I’ve got a couple of small things I’m planning and scrap metal to beat on. I’ve got a bucket of rail road spikes and two bottles of propane!

 My current forge is a small, cheap single burner forge. It’s very inefficient, lots of wasted thermal energy. I want to say it’s a Mr. Vulcan knife maker forge. Takes a long time to heat metal and I don’t think it’s even capable of reaching forge welding temperature. It happens to be sitting on the grill I found at the dump. 
 

I did also find an old small grill I hated that I thought I threw away a couple years ago. Funny the things that turn up when you move. 

[CrazyGoatLady]

Your welcome SHC. No, I never stamped it. 

Thanks guys. I'm sorry I don't get on. Lots of life changes and I haven't dealt well with them. But it's getting better. 

Frosty, the kids weren't planned for the middle of winter. But my little buck didn't do his job when I expected him to. I was beginning to wonder if he was ever going to and contemplated getting a new buck. And the thing with the easement is we think they are using the wrong one and in fact have built over someone else's easement. It's also only about a two year old easement. It woudnt have been a big deal until we had to keep politely asking them and sometimes forcefully asking them not to park cars on our property outside their easement. Its for ingress/egress only. There's way more to the story than that, but I don't want to hijack this thread. It's been a headache 

 

[SHC]

I’ve seen several mentions of avoiding rebar, and I’m wondering why? I made a pair of tongs out of some when I first started. The problem I had was the metal I started with was already thin, 1/2” if memory serves, so they were very flimsy but they held hot metal! I beat the texturing out. I figured either grind them smooth, wear gloves, or practice hammering, so I hammered. I hammered a lot. But I’ve got plenty left, some real skinny and some 1”. 

[Frazer]

It's not that rebar doesn't work, it does. The main reason I avoid rebar is because there is a lot of variability in the composition.  Sometimes there is even variation within the same bar. I've had rebar that hardened when quenched in water and then broke unexpectedly, rebar that had a tendency to split while forging it, etc. There are enough variables (especially when you're first staring out) and constantly playing a guessing game with your stock or having it fail on you half way through your project can be frustrating.

It's worth mentioning that there is also variation with A36, which is the most common structural steel you'll find at your local steel supply. I have just found that the variation with rebar is more extreme than with A36. I have heard that the thicker rebar (#8+) is, in general, higher quality than the thinner stuff you find at the hardware store. In my limited experience (a sample size of one 10' bar) that rumor has held up. That length of scrap #8 rebar turned out to be water hardenable and has been useful for some types of tooling.

It's not that rebar is useless, but it can cause unnecessary headaches. The recommendation to avoid using it is to (hopefully) save the newer guys from running into the same issues most of us have had when trying to forge rebar.

[ThomasPowers]

I've been told that the rebar used in Europe is much better controlled than the lower end rebar here in the USA.  Also that rebar intended for dams, interstate bridges, nuclear power plants, skyscrapers, etc is much better controlled than the low grade rebar here in the USA.  Guess what folks starting out tend to get their hands on here?   You also noticed the extra work to smooth it down; such extra labor can rapidly out-cost the difference in free vs bought steel.

Remember: Free metal isn't free if you have to spend time, effort, and fuel making it usable!

Now there are times when even cheap rebar is "appropriate" especially when you want the pattern on it as a decorative item.

(I use it for cheap tentstakes.)

[JHCC]

Rebar comes in a wide variety of qualities and grades, depending on its intended use. Unless you are making something where the texture is a feature (e.g., a bottle opener), it's just more hassle than it's worth. 

Okay, I see that Thomas was commenting at the same time. His "free metal isn't always free" is a very good point.

It's also worth remembering that (in most parts of the world, anyway) steel isn't rare. Salvaging and repurposing scrap metal can be affordable, fun, and sometimes necessary, but if you take some time to locate a good source of steel stock near you, you will save yourself a LOT of time and effort that you could be putting towards actual smithing.

[SHC]

So it’s all about quality and the work involved? If I don’t mind setbacks, not making anything important, and I’m actually wanting to swing my hammer more, it’s really okay then, right?

 

 I’ve actually got a little bit of 1095 and 4140 that was a gift, I’ve specifically avoided even touching them because I don’t want to turn them into scrap.

 

 I’ve also got the ubiquitous bucket of rail road spikes that I’m beating on. I happened to run across a rail repair crew and told them “I’m just gonna park my truck right here while I check on this water well, I sure wouldn’t mind if any metal just happens to fall in the back.” I got home later and discovered a five gallon bucket of spikes, approximately 16” piece of rail, about a  10” piece rail foot, a couple plates that I think are called tie plates, and several of what I think are called anchor hooks. Of course I’ve already researched the quality of spikes in general, and with all the variations and these being unmarked, I’m planning purely “stuff”. Bottle openers, maybe a fireplace poker, and I need to get that hand trowel done. I’ve turned a few into scrap metal already, just kind of doodling I guess you could say. Hey, I’m practicing!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

RR spikes make great steak flippers and Fredrick crosses. For hammering, drawing out practice. I once drew out a spike to 16 inches with a hook on the end for a steak flipper.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/44160-the-handy-rail-spike/

 

[ThomasPowers]

Your arm, your time, your fuel, your...

I personally prefer to get more output from my work---be able to make more of what I need to make instead of spending time reworking rebar to remove the surface texture.  So come up with a project that uses the surface texture and just make a couple more of them to get in your "practice" rather than "wasting" your time, energy and fuel getting rid of the texture.

I have a number of "practice" items I make to warm up for more difficult ones; I call them "Paying for Propane" items as making one or two of them that can then be sold and pay for the session's propane costs.

[JHCC]

The rail anchors can make very good punches and chisels once you straighten them out.

[SHC]

I will definitely keep that in mind JHCC, thanks for that. 

 

[Frosty]

Just swinging a hammer isn't so good. Practice needs to be good practice to improve your skills and in the beginning adding learning curves unnecessarily is not helpful. Evaluating the stock as you go is at least an intermediate level skill and evaluating tool steels can stump the pros. 

A 20' stick of 1/2" or my preference for beginners, 3/8" square hot rolled costs me last time I checked around $25 to $20. Even though there are variances in A36 structural steel occurring in ONE stick is really rare. This lets a beginner adjust to the forging characteristics of the stock in the first couple heats and not have to adjust for the next 19' and 50 products.

I like starting folks on 3/8" HR square because it's heavy enough to hold heat long enough for a student to do and see the results of a decent amount of work. And it's small enough to finish a project soon enough to prevent frustration for a beginner. You do NOT want a new guy to have to wait till s/he comes back next Saturday  to finish a project. 

Another benefit of starting with square for the beginner is they already have square stock making leaning the 1/4 turn forging technique much easier as it's already square and they can index by feel. An important lesson is forge square, then octagonal and round it up to finish at a planishing temperature. This is called SOR and is a basic technique. I won't go into the reasons for forging square now but it is WAY better than forging round.

1/2" HE square is an excellent size but 2x the mass and about 4x the work to produce the same product, say: coat, S, drive, etc.  hooks. It gives the smith a lot more mass to play with for twists, textures, architectural flourishes, etc. 

RR spikes make decent tongs, they tend to run about 5/8" square and have the mass to make tongs IF you don't waste too much in the process. Yes, there's always an IF. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[SHC]

Thank you! I need to find some classes or meet and greets.