Hi, new here

[SHC]

My name’s Walt, I go by SHC on a few forums, I’m only still active on a fishing forum. 
 

I’m new to blacksmithing. Already built a couple of simple tools, some tongs (ugly, flimsy, but functional) some knife blades, last night I made some bands to bind my anvil stand, it’s built out of a 4X6 timber cut into sections and currently held together with ratchet straps. Today I’ll drill and bolt those bands. 
 

Yesterday I cracked my anvil. Yes, cracked it. It’s a cheapo small cast iron anvil my wife picked out as a birthday gift just to get me started in this hobby. I was making a small hand trowel from a RR spike for digging around in water meter boxes (a semi regular task in my day job), and as I’m sure y’all know it’s hard to move metal on cast iron. So I was banging away at it and moving what I could before the steel cooled, missed my mark and heard a loud crack. After that, I might as well have been pounding on a dirt floor. 
Thankfully I have a piece of railroad track, so I can keep going. 
 

And that’s why I’m here. I’ve been looking at this forum from Google searches. I’ve already decided I love this hobby and would love to produce some work that can actually sell, but I won’t be quitting my day job of course. It offers health insurance!

 

 So I’ll be getting a new anvil sometime hopefully soon. I’m a firm believer in “go big or go home”. I also plan to buy new or like new. To this end, I’ve been browsing the reviews page a bit and plan to do do some more. Right now I’m leaning heavily towards the Peddinghaus #12 or the next one smaller. I learned a long time ago that when you’re investing in a tool of any sort, get the best you can get, borrow someone else’s, or learn to do without. It gets expensive just buying “good enough for now” and then upgrading later. But I’ve been reading some mixed reviews on the Peddinghaus anvils, so the search and research continues. There are several others I’m considering, most are ductile iron with a steel face which I know are used widely with great results, but “go big or go home”. A Kanca is also being considered for being all drop forged steel. 
 

I actually used to work in a steel mill making drop forged flanges, so I’m familiar with the process. I really loved that job, the ‘08 recession shut them down. 

[ThomasPowers]

Wow;  I'm know as a frugal guy; just taught an intro to blacksmithing class using a largish chunk of steel, about 10" x 5.75" x 5" about 80 pounds; cost me US$16 at the scrap yard and will NEVER break even if we are using 16# sledges.  I don't recommend folks spend a lot of money on a hobby until they know they are going to keep it a while. Block anvils have been in use for about 3000 years now they are NOT "lower grade" items!  I currently have 7 London pattern anvils ranging from 91# to over 450#; but I think I'll be using the block anvil for my beginner's classes from now on to help show folks that they don't need to spend a lot to do good smithing!

If you are buying new; check out the guarantee carefully to make sure you can return it after normal use if you run into issues.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Walt, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of hooking up with a member within visiting distance. Are you building a shop to put the big hobby in? 

You know there is a LOT more to this than just buying tools. Spending big money on tools and equipment without knowing how to use them isn't the best way to learn a craft. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari to learn to drive would you?

And as in most things, bigger isn't necessarily better. A good one man shop anvil size is in the range of 125- 200lbs though a lot of guys have a 250lb as their daily user. Mine is a 125lb Soderfors. 

Size is up to you of course as is your budget. There are a number of high quality anvils being cast in the United States currently though there are some back order issues at present, Covid issues largely. All make a range of weights and style from: hornless block "blade maker specials," to London pattern, double horned based on a couple European patterns and some specialty anvils.

I can't recall the names, it's an aphasia thing with me but someone with a functioning memory will probably speak up before long.

Frosty The Lucky.

[SHC]

I am usually pretty frugal and I’ll consider any recommendations. Scott, Cliff Carroll, and TFS are also in the running. I just want something I won’t want to upgrade in a year or two. Built in turning cams seem very attractive to me too. One thing throwing me off is, doesn’t seem to be many retailers of new anvils, and a particular online retailer that sells all three of those plus the Kanca… well, their descriptions kinda suck. 
 

Big block of steel is perfectly cool. Already have a rail track and kinda find myself in need of a horn. I could grind one on I guess, I don’t like my Makita angle grinder. 

[LeeJustice]

There are some nice versions of RR track anvils in the improvised anvils section if you have not been there yet.

[SHC]

Thanks Frosty, I will update that info soon and hope to be able to visit and learn more. I’m not necessarily going for size so much as quality and long term satisfaction. 
Learned how to drive on a ‘57 Ford 8N by the way, and it’s still in use. That’s long term satisfaction!

 

As for shop, I just bought a house back in August with a large automotive shop (stripped bare and closer to small warehouse size) and a nice pole barn enclosed on the end and halfway along both sides, floored with crushed lime and fully enclosed tool shed on the back with concrete floor. 
The guy who owned the place before me did some blacksmithing and repaired farm equipment, so my outbuildings are very adequate. 

West Monroe Louisiana by the way

[Frazer]

10 minutes ago, LeeJustice said:

nice versions of RR track anvils

 

 

[ThomasPowers]

Does your horn need to be part of your anvil?  I use a "cube" anvil for my Y1K kit and made a stake anvil to go with it using a RR spike driver hammer head, (the twisted shaft one was made from a different style RR spike driver + some forging to get the heel and some wild cackling doing the twist in 1.5" sq stock!)

I also teach my students how to do curves without a horn.  Now I do find a free standing cone very handy for truing up circles...and it would be easy to weld a set of turning cams on the side of a block of steel anvil.

Nimba, Holland, Fontanini are a few of the other US anvil makers that come to mind.   I have met a few parents who bought their kids brand new cars to learn to drive on; generally they were not as happy with the results as the parents who bought a "beater" and then surprised their kid with a new car for a graduation gift---though sometimes it was graduation from college...I learned on a 65 VW Bug and seem to have alternated between standards and automatics the rest of my life.

[Frosty]

Sounds like a sweet setup just crying out to be filled and used. Ahh, there are a couple American makers names! Emerson is American I THINK. 

I wasn't trying to be discouraging but we get a lot of youngsters and beginners who want to build their perfect operation but don't know what or how it works. Your ears sound plenty dry, let the games begin.

If you get the chance I HIGHLY recommend, cast Swedish steel. Soderfors anvils, they haven't been cast since about 1970 but there isn't a higher quality anvil.

Frosty The Lucky.

[SHC]

Nope, horn most certainly does not have to be part of the anvil. And I’ve got a dozer axle! Turning cams don’t have to be either, my last set was the back end of a bicycle frame.

I guess I can clarify something: yes, I’m new to this. But not “yesterday” new, about 14 months new, maybe 15. And been making do with what I can get my hands on quick, cheap and easy to make sure I want to pursue this. This is why I’m ready to upgrade to the big boy toys. Sorry I wasn’t clear on that much to begin with. 

[ThomasPowers]

I knew a guy once that was an excellent SCA armourer; he had a nice workshop with all the toys too. His one problem is that he would get disgusted with how business was for an armourer and sell off all his tools for 10 cents on the dollar. Then in a couple of years he would tool up again and start the cycle over.  I knew him for 3 cycles and a lot of his friends were telling him "Why not store the expensive tools instead of selling them at a loss?"   He never would...

It's good when you recognize how you work.  Back close to 50 years ago I was interested in everything and dabbled in a lot of things.  Then in my late 20's I decided that smithing was going to be my primary hobby and started focusing on it.  I've wandered around in that big tent quite a bit and now I'm facing retirement from my "day job".  I hope to finish off a lot of projects sitting around on shelves...  I envy you your building(s).  I have a 20'x60' shop and would like to put a carport out front to move some of the big stuff out so I have more room inside but could still do big work outside.  I just got power to it last Friday, I'm semi rural and the electric CoOp is positively glacial in getting stuff done.

[SHC]

I’m very rural. I have a neighbor across the road who’s lived there about 70 years. My house was built in ‘98. Only time civilization comes out here is during hunting season or when that poor lost fella driving the FedEx truck goes past. And I know he’s lost because there’s nothing past me but thousands of acres of wildlife preserve where all those hunters are going. So unless he’s delivering to a deer stand, he’s looking for me.

My neighbor did just sell a couple acres to a friend of theirs so they can build a house and get out of town, so now there’s three houses out here at the end of the road, and we still can’t even see each other. Monroe ain’t called Gunroe these days for nothing.

 

[ThomasPowers]

I used to rent a place out here where I could walk out my back door and go over 100 miles before hitting a paved road;  now I have a few neighbors.  I'd like a few less noisy ones.   I see the population density of Louisiana is 104 per sq mile and New Mexico is 17, yup 17. I talked with the folks living closest before buying the house; they were ok with a blacksmith; just upset I wasn't a farrier.

I used to live in a 100+ year old brick house with a slate roof and a brick road in the older section of Columbus Ohio.  Even with a double lot I still prefer it out here!

If I was going to buy a new anvil; I'd get one with both a sq horn and a round horn between 150 and 200 pounds. I use a 165# London pattern as my main shop anvil and have the 450#+ one for doing large work on. The anvil I actually have the most hours on is a 91# Arm&Hammer as it's my travel anvil and so when it goes on a trip I get to forge all day instead of all the stuff I should be doing when I'm at home...(also the one I've owned the longest.)

I'm lucky that I anvil'ed up when I was living in Ohio; a great state for used anvils.  I used to average a good condition name brand anvil for under US$1 a pound a year when I was living there as well as a lot of post vises; I had intended to take early retirement and move to the country to open a school...Turned up having Adult Onset Juvenile Diabetes and so had to maintain health insurance till I can get on Medicare at 65 next month.

Now prices have exploded and I'm sure happy I did spend my allowance that way all those years.

[SHC]

Well that’s the average pop density. If you overlaid a square mile grid on the map with my place in the center, you’d get five houses. Still, I visited Wyoming once… if you stray too far from town you may as well be on the moon! Those were good times, building a snowman in June and getting sunburned.

 I’m looking at those three brands you mentioned and I’m really liking what I’m seeing.

Frosty, good call on pointing out Emerson. Not only made in USA, they’re what’s used on Forged in Fire, AND their store is in easy day trip distance. Maybe two hours away, Bossier City Louisiana. I’ll put them on up there in the list of possibles, It would be really nice to save the time and money on shipping. That alone could turn out to be the deciding factor. I’m seeing a few shipping quotes on anvils of $400+.

 

Just so I have a good point of reference for comparison purposes, do any of you know the average hardness of a used section of rail road track? And maybe the average hardness of a cast iron anvil?

[JHCC]

You have to make a distinction between a regular cast iron anvil (too soft; worthless) and a ductile cast iron anvil (somewhat harder, acceptable). There are a number of different grades of ductile cast iron, the hardest of which has a Brinell hardness of 555 maximum, roughly equivalent to 54 RC. Other grades can be so soft that their Brinell ratings don't even register on the RC scale.

For points of comparison, take a look at this thread:

You'll see, for example, that the anvils from Emerson are made from cast 4140 steel at 48-50 RC hardness, while those from Nimba are cast 8640 steel at 50-52 RC.

[ThomasPowers]

Note that being used on Forged in Fire is NOT a recommendation; their hand crank blowers are definitely less than satisfactory!

One thing about USA anvils is if you need to return one it doesn't take an international trip with Customs duties/forms!

[SHC]

I’m not usually one to buy something cause I see on TV, but I ain’t heard none of them guys and gals complain! And you know some folks look for any excuse when they lose. 
It’s going on the list of anvils to look into though for sure, just because I can swing by next time I go to bass pro, and there’s a big flea market on the other side of Shreveport from me.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. There is a member who purchased an Emerson anvil with a thread about it. 

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/46311-emerson-anvil/

 

[Frosty]

HAH, NM is more than 10x as densely populated than Alaska. Population density in Alaska is 1.2 person's per sq/mile. 

The blowers on Forged in Fire are a bad joke I don't think they have a 1:10 crank to fan ratio and they don't coast a full turn. You see blowers made from old bicycles and pop cans in the 3rd world that work better. Video from the 3rd world is THE place to see the living old time blacksmiths plying the trade.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[SHC]

Frosty, I got a Facebook friend in Kenya. His forge was a hole in the dirt and he started out using a rock for an anvil. He’d have a small team taking turns blowing through a piece of pipe to stoke his fire. He makes garden, farming and hand tools from unknown scrap metals for his village. He is steadily moving up thanks to people making donations of tools and equipment. 
 

Irondragon, thanks for that link, I’m going to look at it right now. 

[ThomasPowers]

SHC you think the show would include folks complaining about poor equipment and terrible working conditions?  Have I got a Bridge to sell to *you*!   I've been forging over 40 years now and turned down an invite to be on that show. One of my students was on it and we had some "private discussion" on the reality of such reality shows...

[SHC]

Is the bridge made of metal? lol!

 You’re right of course, it’d be stupid to do that. I did read an interview with the first host, Will Willis I think was his name. Boy did he have some griping and groaning to do. But in fairness, he did point out that many of his complaints were simply due to the nature of that type of show, such as “hurry up and wait” and the intense heat. Four dual burner forges running at full blast in an enclosed space for three to four hours… And his job was to stand there and do nothing but watch. I wouldn’t want that job!

 

 Care to ask your student what he thought of the anvils for me? I’ve been reading and watching reviews on those Emersons, and between what I’ve read and watched, plus the convenience… they’re a really big contender in what I decide to spend my money on. I could sleep in on a Saturday and drive to Bossier after lunch, be home in time to set it up before dinner. 

[ThomasPowers]

Really you want to talk with someone who has used those anvils for a lot longer than just the filming session!  Say 5 years or more and more is better!

[SHC]

Well, only review I’ve found of a long term owner says he really likes his, it’s better than his old Peter Wright even after he’d refaced it, but the PW was his first and still his favorite. And he had a #12 Peddinghaus sitting right next to it. He didn’t comment much on that one except to say it was new and he wasn’t using it much because he hadn’t dressed the edges yet. 

I’ll see if I can track down some of the owners on here and send them PMs. 

[Frosty]

I don't recall ever hearing bad things about an Emerson. No outstanding reports either. No news is good news applies I think, probably means a good solid working anvil.

Making an air blast for a field expedient forge isn't hard, I haven't seen a video of the village kids blowing on pipes, though I'm not surprised. A visiting smith is high entertainment in most villages and the kids line up to help. Seems the most important piece a smith might need in his kit bag is a piece of pipe for the tuyere. The air pump is as easy as a sack or tube and grass or feather plume on a stick, hole covered with a skin, cloth, whatever. I made a bellows with a cardboard box that was surprisingly powerful.

Frosty The Lucky.