Is my forge not hot enough? what am I doing wrong

[Houjous]

clickbaity title I apologize but - I just bought into Blacksmithing and I got a few bars of 1.5x12x.125 1095. I can get the forge to around 1400-1500 degrees at the max but two things are confusing me. I have made a blade before several years ago under an eye of an master and but I think it was 1084. Recreating the steps I remember plus what I have seen on youtube things aren't working correctly. When I forge the tip of what will become a blade - the "top" and "bottom" of the side edge doesn't want to forge together so it looks like I have a crack going down the center of the tip. the second issue that arose was when I was attempting to forge out the tang. I got it as hot as my forge allowed put the bar on the side of the anvil and wacked it. the side that was still on the anvil didn't even compress a little. I made more of a dent with the hammer than the anvil did to the bar.

 

Thanks for any responses  

[JHCC]

What you are getting on the end is a "fishmouth" turning into a "cold shut". The top and bottom aren't going to "forge together" unless you do a forge weld, which is unnecessary and a waste of fuel. Instead, you want to forge one or both corners back into the mass of the bar and then draw out the point.

There are a couple of good threads in the knifemaking section of the forum about this problem, such as this one:

 

[anvil]

You have to give more information. Is your forge coal or gas? How do you know your forge temp. That crack is called a cold shut. When you forge the top and bottom edge they create a fish mouth. If you keep forging it, it becomes a cold shut. As for your tang. Sounds like one side was colder than the other.

It appears you have very little experience. Thats no problem, we all start there.There is an A.B.A.N.A. affiliate blacksmith association in CT.  They hold meetings and do demo's. There is a good chance there is someone close by. Get some one on one help.

[Frazer]

Agreed on the need for some additional info. Another option to avoid a fishmouth while forming the tip of your knife is to simply hot cut the corner off. This lets you form the tip of the knife faster and in fewer heats which results in a better knife overall.

[Chad J.]

The videos always make it look easier.  Once you get the hang of working the corners back it gets quick.  You can practice that while working on other projects, like bottle openers.  

[Frazer]

Quicker than when you first start? Yes. However, it's not nearly as fast and easy as nipping off the corner. IMHO the only reason to take the time to forge the corner back into the bar is with damascus where you're looking to let the pattern show that process.

[Latticino]

You are not supposed to forge weld the top and bottom of the blade edges together to form the initial point.  Ideally you are squeezing the steel at that point to form a sharp taper.  This is one of the basic blacksmithing processes (taper, upset, punch, drift...) that is the most important one for blade forging. 

It is difficult to squeeze down this point using stock that has a high width to thickness ratio as it is tough to upset far down into the bar.  If you are reluctant to use Frasier's recommendation of precutting, it can be accomplished, but it takes time and practice. I recommend practicing with cheap mild steel until you can do this reliably.

You need to work hot and use fairly heavy blows well directed.  You will also need to forge on the "flat" periodically to push down the areas that you upset in thickness.  Don't let the top and bottom corners project past the center of the bar width when you are forging (forge them back in if they start going astray.  I like to visualize the middle of the bar almost extruding out past the top and bottom edges, but you can think of it in your own terms.  Jason Knight has a very good video where he demo's forging in that first tip with hammer and anvil only.  He gets it done in one heat if I recall correctly and uses the anvil edge (can also use the horn similarly) to concentrate his blows: 

 

[Houjous]

Thank you for the help thus far. I am using Propane for the question of what fuel source I am using. As for the tip "crack" thank you for informing me that it was just a "cold shutcold." I'll keep working the blade then till it disappears. for the tang that doesn't want to forge. I keep the tang in the center most heat. So it being hotter on one side than the other doesn't make sense. I'm looking into the A.B.A.N.A. now. As for the reason I know the temp of the metal and forge because I bought a laser thermometer that works up to 3000 degrees F. the forge's burner maxes out at 1500.

[ThomasPowers]

Once you have a cold shut the work to remove it is cutting and discarding it.  One trick I show students is to push a small cold shut up over the spine of the blade  and then hot rasp it off till the tips even even with the spine. (Single edged blades of course.)

[Frazer]

I don't know enough about burners to help you troubleshoot, but I can tell you that 1500F isn't hot enough...

[Mikey98118]

So, some photos would help move this discussion somewhere useful...

[JHCC]

16 hours ago, Houjous said:

I'm looking into the A.B.A.N.A. now. 

Your local ABANA affiliate is the New England Blacksmiths (a number of whose members are active on IFI); their website is http://www.newenglandblacksmiths.org/.